When and how...

[MsPage2U]

How many are poly when dating; poly with a primary; monogymous from the start; monogymous when you are tried and true in love?

[Chas]

It was just her then and it is still just her now...

Of course she feels like she is in a Poly...with all my personalitites on board...*L*

[selena2003]

there's only room for me and one other in my nest. Monogymous by concious choice, and I haven't ever been happier.

selena

[Kai]

Monogymous all the time...

I dont share well at all..... LOL

[power]

i have only ever had two monogymous with two r/ships. my first and my current. all the others i have had numerous partners at the one time. i never felt that i could wake up to the one face all the time.. that i would get bored. didnt i learn a lesson. i believe that (from personal experience only) that someone always get hurt when sharing is involved. someone grows attached etc etc.. but i say whatever turns you on as long its consensual then who is anybody else to judge. and if you can live with what you are doing, then go for it. hope it helps!

[HavUSeenMyLpstik]

And through the years, in it's truest sense.

Said with pride,

Hav

@ Black Leather

[mimisimone]

It's a bicycle built for 2! and it always has been.

Honeybear, you steer and I'll pedal like mad until I'm tired and then you can take over.


(Now, I'm not saying that back when I was young and single, if I had had the chance, I wouldn't have given it (poly) a "swing" so to speak, but I know my own heart)

[CalifBadBoy03]

I have dated more then one woman at a time, I wasnt committed to anyone, so what I did was no one elses business....I was honest and upfront when I said I didnt want a commited relationship, that we could go out, have fun, etc. with absolutely no ties, what I did away from them was none of their business...and vice versa..
Until I dated around and stuff I had no clue as to what I REALLY wanted.....It took time, and alot of yrs being single, and playing the field to know what I wanted...

I wasnt looking to settle, and thats in more ways then one..I didnt want to settle down because I wasnt ready too, and didnt want to settle because I hadnt found the right woman to come across my path, and the chemistry just wasnt there.....

Now at 38 I am ready to settle down, and have been ready since I was 36 when I met BBG and now I am monogymous and totally committed..

[Andrea]

When I'm just dating, I'm just dating, and they know it's that. I can date others, they can date others... I don't like to play weird, secretive games.

However, when it comes to relationshps, I'm definently monogamous. Just works better for me.

[SnugglyMandaBear]

I am monogamous, even when it comes to haveing crushes, but sometimes I actually can have crushes on more than one person.

Though when i'm inlove i'm inlove and it seems like there is no one else who could ever compare to the one i'm inlove with.

I wish I could be a poly, but I cant control my emotions, it makes me so sad when the person I love doesn't love me back.

I'm so jealous of the poly's I want to be one, it seems like nobody I come across wants a one and only or probably more like they dont want me as a one and only

[sports44]

Monogymous. I have cheated in the past...but that is exactly what it is now...the past. And it tech. wasn't cheating because we were both going are seperate ways at the time. I could never see myself hurting someone by cheating on them. When I am with someone, I am only with that person.

[butterflymama]

Nest~ I like that. My Daddy and I nest very well just us two.

I don't share well at all either. I don't think I could ever share and be happy about it.
Am I selfish? Well, yeah when it comes to my Daddy.

I also want to give myself to hym only. No one else.

keep loving....

[Berg]

In my adult life, I've had a long pattern of serial monogamy--never dated multiple people casually, or for the simple joy of uncomplicated sex and lust. Recently single at 37, I'm finally experiencing that. I am not giving it up anytime soon.

I know myself well, though. If I were to fall in love with a woman, I probably would not be interested in having sex with anyone else, and would likely have a jealousy problem if she were seeing other people. It worries me, because I have come to believe that humans aren't biologically wired for monogamy. I will ultimately end up in another relationship, but I don't want to fall back into the serial monogamy trap.

Just one reason I'm not looking for love at present.

[Transcender]

Originally posted by Berg
I will ultimately end up in another relationship, but I don't want to fall back into the serial monogamy trap.

You took the words outta my mouth in your first sentence.

Now my question...

Berg, I think I missed something. What is the "trap" part when it comes to serial monogamy? What's the bad part?

Curious,
Jen

[mameha]

been monogamous in certain relations and 'overlapping' in others.
hardly have time for one complete relationship, let alone multiple people. can't easily get emotionally 'awakened', so many times it is a lust relationship. Currently involved w/ a married butch, and i don't mind it, she is compassionate, and that is more important to me. She , otoh, seems to mind if i signal an attempt of another involvement.
in general, i think monogamy is a learned behavior (and not human nature).

mameha

[Concrete_Angel]

It was so ingrained in me to be mono, when with anyone..or even when exploring something new. If I find the right relationship, I will definitely be a monogamous girl. I can't invest myself in multiple people, interests and emotions and still give the 100% I desire to give and receive. I also like to receive what I give and I wouldn't want my partner with other people. *selfish like that*

Now, however, as I am single, I am finding I can talk to more than one person without feeling bad or like I am being shallow. Sleeping with and talking to, meaning two different things.

I have never had a one night stand and can't envision wanting one, but that doesn't mean it isn't for anyone else..just not for me.

If someone that I am *talking* to develops into something more serious, then I would definitely even be mono in that "getting to know" stage. Until that happens and that interest is shown, it is fairly nice to feel free and happy to persue someone, or be persued, without feeling bogged down in the lil southern guilt I was raised with.
For the first time..I feel liberated..BUT I LOVE a relationship and defintiely DON'T consider them to be a 'trap'.

MHO

CA~

[CrystalBear]

I have not dated for a long time.
But when I finally fall in love,
I want two.
Left and right
Or back and front.
Because one ain't enough
anymore.
..........I"ll be wanting that trinity ....poly monogamous love.

CB

[Letskeepitlite]

Definately Monogamous

[nlvwagrrl]

I am definitly a one woman woman! I dont share AT ALL! Whats mine is mine..........being with my honey is nothing but heaven on earth!

[Berg]

Berg, I think I missed something. What is the "trap" part when it comes to serial monogamy? What's the bad part?

Jen, I think the trap is the social expectation that one person can meet all your sexual and relationship needs. So many folks jump from monogamous relationship to monogamous relationship to monogamous relationship, each time thinking "this is the one," only to have it end some while later. I've done it myself often enough (for two, ten, and four-point-five years, respectively) to have grown skeptical.

Again, I think it comes down to biological wiring. How many animals mate for life? Virtually none. And we are animals.

I could be wrong, of course. Many people do have monogamous, "rest-of-our-lives" relationships, and I tip my hat to 'em! I just question the extent to which it's natural.

When it does work, maybe it's with more mature folks who are in similar places in life, know themselves well, and have already got some living behind 'em.

[Transcender]

Berg, thanks for the thoughts. I'm gonna think on your response, which made me think of Helen Fisher.

One observation, or random thought, and I'm not sure if we mean the same thing. I've watched repeatedly the couples who do cling to each other for every need. They seem isolated to me, and eventually the breakup hinges on resentment and feelings of being smothered, among other things (or that's what I am told).

My monogamous relationships definitely have not looked like that, but then again, I'm a serial monogamist who realizes that there will be an expiration date at some point on the relationship in all likelihood. Maybe that is why I don't think of it as a trap? I was lost when I read that in your post, but I understand your perspective now.

I have considered and tried to be poly. What a disaster for me! I admire the people who can do it.

[Berg]

I think you nailed it with the expiration date thing, Jen. A-yup. I always told myself "this one's forever." That seems almost naive in hindsight.

Still, I'd have a hard time doing a poly relationship with someone with whom I was fully engaged--hence my conflict. I think the only way I could do it would be in a "don't ask, don't tell" scenario. Doesn't sound exactly optimal, does it?

[Transcender]

Originally posted by Berg
I think you nailed it with the expiration date thing, Jen. A-yup. I always told myself "this one's forever." That seems almost naive in hindsight.

Still, I'd have a hard time doing a poly relationship with someone with whom I was fully engaged--hence my conflict. I think the only way I could do it would be in a "don't ask, don't tell" scenario. Doesn't sound exactly optimal, does it?

I just figured out something. People say "monogamy" as if the term is transparent, simple, and universal. That's where I became screwed up myself. Right now, sitting here, I can tease out two meanings, one of which has always irked me and made me think that I should I try poly (then again, there are quite a few ways of being poly, and none worked for me).

The first meaning goes a lil' somethin' like this: together, for life, 'til death do us part, this is The One, forever. You will never hear me say any of that. My sense is that people change at different rates and become different people with different needs over time; there has never been any reason for me to assume that my partner and I will or should be doing that simultaneously, or for like. Which leads nicely into ...

...the other meaning, which is the way I approach it. There is a story that sums up my approach beautifully. I never read this story, only heard it. I do not know if it is true, and I assume that an anthropology, sociology or biography or who-knows-what geek (I say that with love and admiration) will answer that question for me. Margaret Mead was said to be asked by an interviewer about her feelings regarding the failure of her three marriages. "Failure?" she asked. "Quite the contrary, each of my marriages was a success in its own right. My first marriage was successful because it gave me what I wanted: sexual gratification. The second marriage enabled me to raise my children. The third answered my need for companionship. All of them gave me what I wanted at that time."

Mead was pointing out that marriage -- and, I suppose, relationships -- are only if a failure if you define them in win/lose terms that involve ideas like "forever." That's my gloss on this Mead story; I'm sure people will contribute other interpretations.

I really invest my whole self in a relationship once I decide to go ahead with it, but I'm not sure that means investing the rest of my life.

I've seen the "don't ask, don't tell" option work, actually in a few marriages in my family. It would not be optimal for me b/c I get confused easily, lose stuff, and blurt things out.

Jen

P.S. I have no idea if Mead was even married. Dat's the story I have heard, more than once.

[Berg]

Funny you should mention Margaret Mead. One of her biographers was recently profiled on NPR: seems MM was bi (though she didn't necessarily identify as such) and led a fairly adventurous life, sexually. If I remember right, she was not monogamous. I believe she was married, too.

I like her take on things. It does seem that we set ourselves up for failure with expectations of forever.

My (most recent) ex and I opened our relationship sexually after I began transitioning. She wanted this because she IDed as lesbian and felt it was unreasonable for me to expect her never to touch another woman. And actually, I was more OK with it than I expected to be...though I have to wonder whether part of the reason for that was that I was no longer fully invested.

All good food fer the thoughts!

[Concrete_Angel]

Have you considered that FOREVER does happen but that it takes a forever kind of thought and investment? EVERYTHING takes work and love takes work and time and understanding.

I don't want to seem like the needy type because I am a very independant girl, but I feel very wrapped up and happy in love and I can't see sharing that with more than one person at a time. I must have been a child who enjoyed boundaries because I definitely think there are boundaries to love and rules for fighting and over-stepping those boundaries.

Serial monogamy isn't the disease, but a symptom of something else..unique to each individual. If we ever stop to REALLY look and see why we aren't successful in our relationships, we just might find the means to the end of serial monogamy.

I believe in forever...*no small shock I know*...and I am seeking the whole fairy tale...and if I don't find it in my next partner's eyes and heart, I will hopefully have learned where that fairy tale went wrong and correct the errors for the next attempt.

Some animals do mate for life..Lobsters..Doves..Pigeons..and many more that won't come to mind..but as for the ones that don't? I certainly don't want to be the one left raising the babies while the dog of the family is off mating with someone new. I think that is what seperates us FROM the animals, thankfully!

CA~

[BaltoButch]

who meets all your needs... but I was caught in the same trap Berg so eloquently described... I went with initial feelings and desires and made that about something more than what it was... the honeymoon stage

after my ex, Shan, I started to date and many people... I realized she and I had been in different stages but that wasn't evident to either of us until many months into the relationship... we parted amicably and went on with our lives, remaining friends... she has been a huge support through this recent break-up... the one that crushed my heart... the one I connectted with so thoroughly that we seemed to have been together for 10 years after the first month.... the one I hurt a women when I chose her... but that spark was new to me... it was so different... but too many bad decisions (mostly mine) caused that "perfect couple" to be destroyed...

and now, I relaize I continued the serial monogamy trend even with the last gf...

now, being hurt and untrusting, I am looking for friends... some of those friends have certain benefits, some are just friendly voices on the phone or thru PMs, Emails, chat and threads... but these women are wonderful to get to know and without any pressure to be anything more than what it is... friendship

monogamy is about trust... not just day to day life... but trust and devotion... and right now, I don't have those to give... right now, I can only give small parts of me to different women... and most don't have the same parts LOL

but that is where I am now... monogamy is something to be earned and developed it can not be expectted... it takes time to develop and thats the hardest part for anyone with estrogen... taking our time...

as for forever... I was the biggest romantic you could ever meet... I wanted the "white picket fence" and the fairy tale... I wanted to wake up every morning with one woman, have a family, and get to hold her in my arms as we slept... but that takes A LOT of work and dedication... it requires a great deal of investment: heart, body & soul... and it seems like only a dream right now...

and my days of being a dreamer are done... I get up, go to work, go home, play online, play with my dog... on weekends I work on my house, play with my dog and play online... my walls are literal... they stand around me as I walk from room to room... vanquishing the ghosts of serial monogamy gone horribly wrong LOL...

I see nothing wrong with dating a few women, as long as they know the situation and and where you are emotionally... not saying they need the gorey details of what you do with the others LOL... but I see it as a good means to see what can happen... sometimes its life long friendships.... sometimes its 2 ships in the night (nothing wrong with a one-night stand)... sometimes its the healing process for both of you... sometimes its nothing... but occassionally, if both are in the same place, at the same time, with the right connection magic can happen... once I find that magic, I'll believe in the fairy tale again and know that I will be happy with just her, for as long as she'll have me (notice I didn't say forever LOL)

[Transcender]

Thanks for this post, Balto - still thinking on it.
Jen

[mameha]

i have to question why we put so much emphasis on monogamy or sexual loyalty. we don't expect to eat the same meal over & over all through our adult lives (even if it weren't for nutritional imbalance). why is sex treated so differently? why does it have to be married to romantic love?
there is no question of parental lineage (not in the lesbian world, at least), so then why does this learned behavior/expectation still enjoy so much reverence?

~mameha~
SF geisha

[Eve]

I think I like mixing mono and poly notions best.

RE: the current conversation I, like Transcender (hiya!) think that there's never any guarantee of forever in any relationship. However, that doesn't mean I think there's a guarantee that it *won't* be a "the rest of our lives" kinda deal. I like building things, homes, families, lives ... I like the building process almost as much as I like the destination. I like having someone with whom I'm building, even though I know there's no promise that we'll be forever. I *do* think it's possible, and possible in a healthy and amazing way. I don't think it's the *only* option. I DO NOT think it's *better* than other life choices. It's one choice, right for some and not for others.

I hope, when/if I make a lifetime commitment to someone, that it's a lifetime commitment. I think it's possible, but I have many real-life examples (both good and bad) of that happening. I don't believe making a lifetime commitment is something that one should do without spending:

a significant amount of time dating,
a significant amount of time in a committed relationship, and
a significant amount of time living together.

Those are my conditions before making a life-time commitment to someone. If I make such a commitment, I make it in good faith, because I *do* believe it's possible and I do believe it's possible for me. I haven't as of yet made such a commitment in my life. I may never. I might.

However, the above has nothing, quite literally, to do with my choices around poly/mono. I have been monogamous (quite succesfully and for long term). I have been poly (several different constructions of poly). I have been non-monogamous (which is different from poly to me). Right now, what works best for me, is negotiated non-monogamy. I have no desire (right now) to be poly. However, recognizing that as great as our sexual chemistry is, there's no reason my partner might not get the hots for someone else at some point, that option is open to us both upon negotiation. We also have different rules for playing (BDSM stuff).

Oy. I'm still thinking through this stuff. Good posts Transcender and Berg! Thanks for making me think!

~Eve

[Transcender]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eve
[B]
I *do* think it's possible, and possible in a healthy and amazing way. I don't think it's the *only* option. I DO NOT think it's *better* than other life choices. It's one choice, right for some and not for others.
_________________________________________

Eve,

I meant to say all this stuff, too. You just said it better. I don't see monogamy as better or worse, either. It is a way that functions well in some folks' lives, but it is not for everyone.

I want to draw a parallel between my different ways of handling monogamy over my adult dating life and my different ways of being the queer dork that I am. I'm finding that the two have overlapped in my life.

I was out when I was 18, though people guessed well before then. I wasn't living at home, so there was no point in concealing any longer. I came out in what some people have called a lesbian separatist environment. Aggressive politics, almost like a code of how to behave and what to think. I tend toward being a free spirit, so perhaps I am being hyperbolic in this characterization of how things were, but dammit, that's how it felt. Make-up? Bad. BSDM? Bad. Male-identified? Bad. Butch-femme? Bad. I suppose I did not rebel against this environment for some time b/c I needed the guidance and structure. There was a rigidity in it that suited me, even as I chafed a bit.

A few years went by, and BOOM! onto new things. Really out in a ... provocative way. I won't say too much on these years. Let's just say that whatever was formerly repressed was no more. I learned alot.

Ahem.

I had many ups and downs with how "out" to be, how aggressive my comings out should be, and to whom. I tried labels: lesbian feminist, lesbian, lipstick lesbian, bisexual, gay woman, grrl, dyke, and more. For the past few years, I basically go with "queer" b/c the term embraces all of those other terms, which are part of my history as well as who I am now.

The parallel. When I began dating, I did think everything had to be forever and mono. I had a very limited view of possibilities. I was judgmental. Interestingly, once my heart was broken a few times, I went hyper-poly, which is the only descriptor I can use off the top o' my head. Then I bashed my former monogamous ways as not being good for anyone because that way of relating was about control and ownership. Can ya tell I was embittered?

Flash forward some years to here and now: happy to be me, happy to have serial monogamy, which again seems, in my understanding of moi, to embrace the best aspects of my earlier struggles with how to create a relationship in my life.

Will both these stories keep unfolding? I sure hope so. That is not to suggest that I am not content with where I am now. I am.

I think Balto was hitting the nail on the head, if I understood him correctly: what kind of relating works now, given who you are now? How does that way of creating/maintaining relationships function in your life? Does it make you feel unstable or at ease with the world? Does it enable or inhibit you? I found I had to answer these questions when it came to handling my sexual identity as well as my "relational identity."

Berg, now I hafta to look for the new Mead biography.
Jen

[Eve]

Hey Jen,

Great post, great thoughts. Just a bit of clarification: I meant my "this is just one way" statement to be about life-long partnering. It applies to monogamy and polyamory and non-monogamy as well, but initially I was teasing out my thoughts about long-term or lifetime partnerships. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

For me, then, monogamy has nothing to to with lifetime partnership. The two are quite seperate decisions, quite seperate aspects of my relationship life.

I am in a relationship that is incredible for me. I am in love. I am in lust. I am in like. We are not monogamous. I don't know if we'll make a lifetime commitment to one another, that is a bridge we'll cross at some point (near or far) in the future. But whether or not we make a lifetime commitment (and then, whether we are able to keep that ... which I *do* think is a possibility, what I was trying to say earlier) is not related to whether or not we're monogamous.

As an aside, I was a serial non-monagamist for a while. Meaning, I would have someone I was dating pretty regularly, but not in a relationship with and then I'd date other folks from time to time. I never really had a serial-monogamy phase. I had one long-term relationship that was monogamous. My first. 2.5 years. Everything after that has been non-monogamous in some way (whether mostly in spirit or totally in practice).

Great conversation! Let me know what you find out about Meade!

~Eve

[Transcender]

Originally posted by Eve

For me, then, monogamy has nothing to to with lifetime partnership. The two are quite seperate decisions, quite seperate aspects of my relationship life.

Eve, I read your clarification, reread your post above, slapped my forehead, and said "d'oh." Sorry. I gots ya now.

As for the quoted part above, I have to think about what my question is. I know it's in there somewhere. *shaking head and sloshing brain around*

Mead was in fact married three times, from what my research indicates. You know, when I want to procrastinate on something, I sure can find ways!
Jen

[Rainbow Skittles]

I am monogamous by nature. It is who I am just as much as I am "femme" or I am a "lesbian". I could go out there and get involved with a bunch of people at once, but it is against my nature and I would be just as miserable as I was before I came out.

I am VERY monogamous. I do not even "date" multiple people. And as far as what I eat...well...if you liken it to ice cream than I am pretty much monogamous in that area too!

Of course I have been accused of being "fickle" or not giving people enough time (have been known to stop things after the first date). Now I know it was just because I knew what I was looking for and they WEREN'T it!

To me, being monogamous is not a chore....it is who I am. Hmmm...maybe it's cause I was an only child so I never had to share....

But more likely, it is just because it is the way I am wired, it is WHO I am, not something I DO. Of course, I try not to knock what works for others...but I am upfront about who I am and what my expectations are. I tried to compromise that in one relationship and it would have been much better if I had just realized that person was not as monogamous as I was and just walked away.

[SnugglyMandaBear]

Originally posted by mameha
i have to question why we put so much emphasis on monogamy or sexual loyalty. we don't expect to eat the same meal over & over all through our adult lives (even if it weren't for nutritional imbalance). why is sex treated so differently? why does it have to be married to romantic love?
there is no question of parental lineage (not in the lesbian world, at least), so then why does this learned behavior/expectation still enjoy so much reverence?

~mameha~
SF geisha

Because food doesn't exactly have the personality a human does, it also doesn't fullfill all your emotional needs either.
A human can make you happy, sad, angry, loved etc.

For the monogamous people it is almost like having your most favorite item that you love so much you will not let someone else have.

Some people like to stick with what they have and have a fear of changes also.

It's almost like (if you love your parents to death) if you had to change your mom or dad you would never want to do that because they are the only mom and dad to you. They are irreplaceable.

I guess More like in the end Poly's are great at sharing and monogamous well lets face it we're not.

[Eve]

I don't think it's as simple as "Poly folks are good at sharing and Monogamous folks aren't."

I believe it's more complicated than that. I'm interested in *how* it's complicated in people's experience and thinking.

I'm not essentially *anything* -- the notion of essence doesn't work at all for me, either philosophically or personally.

I am -- by definition -- an adaptable creature. I have boundaries, it's true, but those are about my expectations on a much less defined plane than "you will/won't have this behavior" or the like. For instance, I have a boundary about respect. But I wouldn't link it specifically to a sexual behavior. It's less concrete (for me) than that. I think monogamous behaviours can be incredibly disrespectful and I think non-monogamous behaviours can be incredibly respectful. Vice versa too.

I guess what I'm saying is that in addition to the *for me* portion of this discussion -- a portion we each have the right to claim in our own way -- I hope we can have a discussion about the *whys* that goes beyond the simple "I am this, I just am this" kind of statement. 'Cause it interests me.

But hell, I may be trying to hijack this thread to have a discussion _I_ am interested in and nobody else is!

And just for the record:

A human can make you happy, sad, angry, loved etc.

That statement squicks me. I don't think anyone can *make* me happy. I can either be happy or not be happy, but it's not someone *else's* job to make me anything. A situation can bring me joy or pain, but it's not within another person's power to *make* me feel anything. I have agency and choice and power in my life, including in my emotional life. Which is not to say that being with my partner isn't a major source of joy for me. It is. But my partner doesn't *make* me anything. Maybe that's why I'm non-monogamous so often? I'm not looking for *anyone* to complete me or fulfill me. I am already complete and fulfilled. I'm looking (and have found) another complete and fulfilled person to share the journey with me, good and bad.

~Eve

[Berg]

Eve, I never even paused to think about the distinction between "poly" and "non-monogamous." That's important, and I thank you for bringing it up. I'm guessing that the former indicates more than one meaningful intimate relationship, while the latter indicates a primary partnership with sex on the outside. The idea of negotiated non-monogamy sounds promising--something I might be able to consider with a future partner, someday.

As for Mameha's food analogy, I quite liked it! Sex can be to the soul what food is to the body: not just sustenance, not just nourishment, but a delicious indulgence, too. While one might be able to survive on a diet of nothing but scrambled eggs, it would surely make for a gray existence. For this fella, anyway!

[Rainbow Skittles]

Originally posted by Eve
I believe it's more complicated than that. I'm interested in *how* it's complicated in people's experience and thinking.

I hope we can have a discussion about the *whys* that goes beyond the simple "I am this, I just am this" kind of statement. 'Cause it interests me.

But hell, I may be trying to hijack this thread to have a discussion _I_ am interested in and nobody else is!

Maybe that's why I'm non-monogamous so often? I'm not looking for *anyone* to complete me or fulfill me. I am already complete and fulfilled. I'm looking (and have found) another complete and fulfilled person to share the journey with me, good and bad.

~Eve

I am certainly up for a more in depth discussion, at least to the limitation of my own cognitive abilities and knowledge of this topic.

I still have to stick by my "wired" theory, though that certainly does not explain the "why's" of everyone else's behavior. Certainly the "why's" are as unique as each individual?

Also not to compare humans with other species of animal to the largest degree, it would seem that nature as well reflects this philosophy. There are species that are monogamous, while there are other species who are not....

But could you help me out a little Eve? I am new to some of this...what would be the dif between polygamous and non-monogamous?

Thanks!

[Eve]

Wellll ... much like I think reasons for behaviour are individually determined, at least when we're talking about looking at behaviour at an individual level (analysis of group behaviour or cultural norms would be a different endeavor), I think definitions of polyamory and non-monogamy differ.

For ME, the two are different in the way Berg described. He made it simple and neat. For a more complicated reading, look below.

Poly, to me, means that a person is engaging in multiple relationships, that there is a romantic *and* sexual *and* emotional investment in more than one person going on. But that kind of description (romantic, emotional, sexual investment) doesn't really describe all of my non-monogamous experiences. Sometimes I've had that situation. Mostly though, my romantic and emotional investment is with one person and I might have sexual experiences with other folks.

Of course, for me, if I'm having a sexual experience with someone I have *some* kind of emotional/relational investment. I don't have to have a romantic componant, and I save my romantic feelings for my partner *only*.

Any sexual investment I have with a sex buddy or play partner is always recognized as *not* having priority over my partner's boundaries (shifting though they might be) regarding my sexual activity. So my partner has veto power on anyone I might fuck. My partner also has the right to say "I was comfortable, now I'm not" and I will end any sexual activity with a person. Anyone I fuck knows this going into it.

We are non-monogamous. We each have sex or play or both with other people. But that is negotiated on a case-by-case basis. Neither one of us has -- or is interested in having -- a continuing relationship with someone other than each other. We are *not* poly. There are some non-monogamous folks who have a 50 mile rule (you can't fuck anyone within 50 mile of home). Some couples have a "me-too" rule -- they're up for threesomes involving both partners. Some non-monogamous folks have a "don't ask don't tell" policy. They decide *not* to discuss sexual escapades with each other, though they have agreed that they can both have them. Any (consensual) sex outside one's primary partnership is a form of non-monogamy.

Polyamory (to me) means that folks have ongoing relationships with several people, sometimes with a primary partnership defined, sometimes without. Polyamory can be used to describe triads and quad relationships.

So, in summation (ha!) for me Poly means more than one *relationship* going on. Non-monogamy means that sex may occur outside of the partnership, but that sex is consensual (in whatever way works) and not relationally-oriented.

Did this help at all? I'm just offering my definitions. I'm not an expert on the subject at *all*. There are many folks (right here on this site even) who have far greater experience with poly and non-monogamy than me. Hopefully they'll find their way here and weigh in!

~Eve

[Rainbow Skittles]

That was much clearer, thanks! Of course I need to digest that before I can really contribute much to this discussion. At least now I have food for thought!

[Awetum]

I live in a non-monogamous relationship for awhile. The reality of the arrangement was that we could have sex with other people, but not an ongoing dating relationship. There were a bunch of other parameters as well that I won't go into. For the most part during that relationship neither of us actually had sex with anyone else (that I know of). Nonetheless, the concept of non-monogamy, and all the various different ways in which our open relationship came to be defined, was very problematic for me. As Eve requested, I'll try and give that some definition.

While I don't have an overwhelming amount of self-esteem issues, I do have some, and they are both the right-out-front obvious kind and the hidden-away-insidious kind. Because of that I had lots of issues with being in an open relationship, largely centered around "why am I never enough" kinds of questions.

Also, in that relationship, while we communicated well, we did not seem to continue appropriate communication around non-monogamy. That is, I'd establish parameters that I felt I could live within, and/or that I'd agree to live within and deal with my own issues if that was hard for me. My partner constantly shifted those parameters when it became convenient for her to do so leaving me to either live with them, or end the relationship. (Self-esteem comes in here again, self-blame that I couldn't "handle" it, etc.) For instance, a hard boundary was around other "love" relationships. To me that meant if those sorts of emotional feelings even hinted that they could be on the horizon, it was the responsibility of my committed partner to step back from that relationship. That didn't happen, and I had to decide to leave or see if I could adjust that boundary.

Another specific reason why non-monogamy doesn't work for me, (but perhaps is also a reason why it *could* work for me if I had some of my self-esteem things figured out and was in a fully honest and communicative relationship): sex just isn't that important to me. That is, I enjoy sex a great deal, but not so much that I would risk my relationship to have it with someone else. Ergo, it's hard for me to correlate that someone else would risk relationship with me for sex with another.

The funny thing is that in my current relationship with my partner, while we are monogamous and I am clear about my boundaries regarding that (as is he for that matter) -- I think non-monogamy would be less of a problem for me. However, in this relationship I feel fully "partnered." That is, I know my butch loves me, considers me his wife, and finds joy not just in me, but in the "partnered" facts of our existence. That is new for me, and wonderful because it's how I am as well. It also helps me feel quite secure in our relationship and not feel threatened by others. All the reasons monogamy feels good with him and safe and "right" are the same reasons why non-monogamy feels less threatening to me now that it used to. It's not my bag and not my desire, but it doesn't give me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach anymore when others discuss it.