femme sexuality

[Mistress Sky Fiske]

Gawd I love Snarky Bitches
My .02

Self love is a good thing ...

Had no idea I would get blasted for posting to a public board asking for clarification on a topic ... nor did I know this thread was so clickish and created simply to stroke the egos of a select few. I will leave you to your thread. Have the curousity of not talking behind my back, my messages are always open.

Blessings ~

Sky ~ a Femme and Lesbian

[BADBOY]

Did I hear Incredible Package, (NO Impeccable Presentation?) ......... care to expand (Oh Handsome Man of Mine)?

Miss July (MY calendar girl)
You of course have impeccable presentation, another part of the complete package that is MY understanding/definition of a femme.
In touching on what has been said by Persi, Converse, and Tyme, I see femme as an attitude, a lifestyle that has nothing to do with sexual preference, but does have a lot to do with sensuality. It defines how she expects to be treated and how she in turn treats her lover/spouse. Until recently (as in when I joined this site) all my relationships & 2 marriages were with straight women; femmes. It is what I've always been attracted to. I believe a femme commands the chivalrous acts bestowed on her just by nature of who she is, regardless if she is with a butch or a man. I also believe the roles and boundaries are fairly well defined in her relationships, enhanced when she is with someone who clearly understands her dynamic. In turn, a femme absolutely enhances a man or a butch because of her attitude and the way she carries herself.
Okay, I'm trying to do this on my cell, so I apologize if I didn't express MY OPINION clearly. Again, my .02.

[Miss July]

Gosh.......................I hope I wasn't mistaken for some one that gives a damn.

I missed the blasting?

I don't stroke anyones ego (ok his from time to time).

Do I even seem close to some one who would talk sheeeeit behind anyones back?

You clearly came off as snarky and I was making MY observation, letting you know (just in case that was not your intention as well as your reply to me).

Enough derailing of the thread.....................(sorry clicksters)

BadBoy I like the way you think

MJ,
A Femme & Bitch (His Bitch)

Self love is a good thing ...

Had no idea I would get blasted for posting to a public board asking for clarification on a topic ... nor did I know this thread was so clickish and created simply to stroke the egos of a select few. I will leave you to your thread. Have the curousity of not talking behind my back, my messages are always open.

Blessings ~

Sky ~ a Femme and Lesbian

[Bootsandheels]

too bad the snark is often embedded in ignorance.

enywaysssssss......thyme i know exactly what you mean. to me, it's a compliment when a butch is chivalrous, not a sign of superiority.

AMEN AMEN AMEN....^5 ladies....I ALWAYS feel so loved and cared for when any butch does these things for me...it AFFIRMS me as a femme as far as I'm concerned....omg...I am revving up my engines to blast off here in a minute! Ladies....? Are ya really ready to get up close and personal? Must I lead? Shit....OK FINE!!! *goes off to work on intelligent, witty and deliciously intriguing and erotic response to thread....:)

[persiphone]

Self love is a good thing ...

Had no idea I would get blasted for posting to a public board asking for clarification on a topic ... nor did I know this thread was so clickish and created simply to stroke the egos of a select few. I will leave you to your thread. Have the curousity of not talking behind my back, my messages are always open.

Blessings ~

Sky ~ a Femme and Lesbian

here, i'll quote you so as not to be accused of ....talking behind your back? (on a public forum. wierd.) did you mean "courtesy"? i wasn't sure what "curousity" was. so far, all you've done is be insulting. i simply tried to inform you without passing any judgement at all. i find your responses to be uber defensive and it's really not necessary. i don't know you at all and therefore you aren't qualified for my dislike. i don't dislike people i don't know something about. but that's just me and my ego filled one sided view. <--sarcasm (in case that needed clarification) perhaps, you should try talking TO people rather than AT them.

the end.

[Toughy]

ya know............I only date femmes who are lesbians. That's probably because I am a lesbian and an old school butch and a woman. There are plenty of femme lesbians and butch lesbians in this world....so..........mmmmm..........does the lesbian femme in my butch ass lesbian bed have lesbian sex or does she have butch/femme sex or does she just have sex in all it's various and delicious forms?

Sex acts are not gendered. Penetration is penetration....doesn't matter who is the doer or the doee. Same goes with oral sex.....doesn't matter who is sucking what........it's still oral sex. Anal is anal......

sex is sex.....does it matter who is the pitcher and who is the catcher or if they switch?

Femme sexuality is as varied as butch sexuality. Maybe this conversation about femme sexuality could occur without the lesbian bashing. I know I can talk about my own butch sexuality (and my experiences with femme sexuality) without bashing or denying anybody else. Maybe y'all can too...

[persiphone]

ya know............I only date femmes who are lesbians. That's probably because I am a lesbian and an old school butch and a woman. There are plenty of femme lesbians and butch lesbians in this world....so..........mmmmm..........does the lesbian femme in my butch ass lesbian bed have lesbian sex or does she have butch/femme sex or does she just have sex in all it's various and delicious forms?

Sex acts are not gendered. Penetration is penetration....doesn't matter who is the doer or the doee. Same goes with oral sex.....doesn't matter who is sucking what........it's still oral sex. Anal is anal......

sex is sex.....does it matter who is the pitcher and who is the catcher or if they switch?

Femme sexuality is as varied as butch sexuality. Maybe this conversation about femme sexuality could occur without the lesbian bashing. I know I can talk about my own butch sexuality (and my experiences with femme sexuality) without bashing or denying anybody else. Maybe y'all can too...

no one lesbian bashed. in fact it seems a little more like the opposite. in post #70 i even said that i have no qualms with the people that ID as lesbian. i don't think that stating that i do not ID a a lesbian should be taken personally by those that do. i'm not offended by your ID. i don't see why mine is viewed as so threatening. and yes, there are differences in bed between butch lesbians and butches/trans that are not lesbians.

and not all butches ID as women either. (i'm kind of over masculine ID'd butches being demasculinized in this way however subtle it comes across)

i'm sure there are exceptions as with everything and yes, individuals are unique, etc. sex.....is not sex. sorry lol! and for those who have preferrences and different IDs from yours yes it does matter who catches and who pitches.

finally, i think this conversation about femme sexuality will be about what everyone would like to talk about and that's just what it will be, tyvm. i don't appreciate being told how to speak or what to speak about in regards to my sexuality. please refrain from telling me how or what to post about. i'm not a child and you aren't my Daddy. femme silencing is tired and a lot of us are quite over it. we do have voices. you are welcome not to listen, but chastising me for not sharing your view is not helpful or kind.

[Miss July]

finally, i think this conversation about femme sexuality will be about what everyone would like to talk about and that's just what it will be, tyvm. I don't appreciate being told how to speak or what to speak about in regards to my sexuality. Please refrain from telling me how or what to post about. I'm not a child and you aren't my daddy. Femme silencing is tired and a lot of us are quite over it. We do have voices. You are welcome not to listen, but chastising me for not sharing your view is not helpful or kind.

Amen!

[loneknight]

i love this thread,femmes delight me, always have always will

[Bootsandheels]

no one lesbian bashed. in fact it seems a little more like the opposite. in post #70 i even said that i have no qualms with the people that ID as lesbian. i don't think that stating that i do not ID a a lesbian should be taken personally by those that do. i'm not offended by your ID. i don't see why mine is viewed as so threatening. and yes, there are differences in bed between butch lesbians and butches/trans that are not lesbians.

and not all butches ID as women either. (i'm kind of over masculine ID'd butches being demasculinized in this way however subtle it comes across)

i'm sure there are exceptions as with everything and yes, individuals are unique, etc. sex.....is not sex. sorry lol! and for those who have preferrences and different IDs from yours yes it does matter who catches and who pitches.

finally, i think this conversation about femme sexuality will be about what everyone would like to talk about and that's just what it will be, tyvm. i don't appreciate being told how to speak or what to speak about in regards to my sexuality. please refrain from telling me how or what to post about. i'm not a child and you aren't my Daddy. femme silencing is tired and a lot of us are quite over it. we do have voices. you are welcome not to listen, but chastising me for not sharing your view is not helpful or kind.

AMEN!!! In NO way was I lesbian bashing either! Just because I stated that I reject the term "lesbian" in regards to myself personally doesn't mean I'm bashing lesbians or the terminology!
Good GRIEF!!! It is a highly personal and intimate choice that I choose to identify the way I do, and there have been FAR too many experiences for me to go into as to WHY I feel so strongly about NOT being id'ed by what I consider as a vanilla generic term for myself. That in NO way means that I do not respect, love and honor the term or lesbian women!!! *struts off to continue working on response about femme sexuality wondering if it's really worth the trouble and time now since this thread is continuing to get derailed....grrrrrrr.

[SweetJane]

Persi, thank you for your response. I don't know why this is such a charged issue but it seems to be an issue in the lesbian realm. I have had conversations with lesbians locally and in other parts of the country who speak out strongly and sometimes not kindly about the butch/femme dynamic. They seem to know the words but don't understand the real meaning of it. That's why this thread and others like it are so important for me to get my head around it. I don't know why this dynamic seems to spark strong emotions in others, but it does.

However, this thread has provided me with some terrific insights already. BADBOY said something that I found very profound for me personally.... "I believe a femme commands the chivalrous acts bestowed on her just by nature of who she is, regardless if she is with a butch or a man." The part that resonated was the last phrase. Because I came out of the hetero world, I've had people simple question and some even accuse me because I claim the ID of gay femme woman. Some have said, "Well, didn't you know you were gay?" And one even accused me of basing my hetero marriage on a lie and she absolutely had no sympathy for the difficulties I faced in a divorce. .....

But BADBOY's statement made me realize that maybe I always was femme---and that it was OK. Perhaps I found what I thought was my counterpart in another gender. One very male ID'd butch friend of mine whose partner also came from a hetero marriage said to me: "Of course some femmes are confused. You are attracted to masculinity and society says that's in a bio male. When you find it in a butch woman, something finally clicks."

So please keep the discussion going about femme sexuality. I'm listening and processing.

[Bootsandheels]

Persi, thank you for your response. I don't know why this is such a charged issue but it seems to be an issue in the lesbian realm. I have had conversations with lesbians locally and in other parts of the country who speak out strongly and sometimes not kindly about the butch/femme dynamic. They seem to know the words but don't understand the real meaning of it. That's why this thread and others like it are so important for me to get my head around it. I don't know why this dynamic seems to spark strong emotions in others, but it does.

However, this thread has provided me with some terrific insights already. BADBOY said something that I found very profound for me personally.... "I believe a femme commands the chivalrous acts bestowed on her just by nature of who she is, regardless if she is with a butch or a man." The part that resonated was the last phrase. Because I came out of the hetero world, I've had people simple question and some even accuse me because I claim the ID of gay femme woman. Some have said, "Well, didn't you know you were gay?" And one even accused me of basing my hetero marriage on a lie and she absolutely had no sympathy for the difficulties I faced in a divorce. .....

But BADBOY's statement made me realize that maybe I always was femme---and that it was OK. Perhaps I found what I thought was my counterpart in another gender. One very male ID'd butch friend of mine whose partner also came from a hetero marriage said to me: "Of course some femmes are confused. You are attracted to masculinity and society says that's in a bio male. When you find it in a butch woman, something finally clicks."

So please keep the discussion going about femme sexuality. I'm listening and processing.

Woohoo!!!! *Does the extreme happy dance....

[tymejumper]

I too have had Lesbians direct anger towards me for being a Femme in a Butch/Femme relationship. They act as if I am giving up something, not being Feminist enough or being a turncoat. I just don't understand this attitude. I get pissed off when they assume that I am the 'wifey' and my Butch is the 'husband' and we are trying to act like we are straight couple because we are not ready to be 'real lesbians', whatever the heck that is. I also got that shit when I said that I was biseuxal, because I have slept with men in the past. What is with the attitude of "you have to be this or that, or you can't be a real lesbian' crap? Not all Lesbian identified women are like this, I have several friends that ID as Lesbian only, and they don't understand it either.

Yes, I am attracted to masculinity, and I expect to be treated like a lady, and that includes in the bedroom. Am I a pillow princess? Nope, but my satisfaction is of the utmost importance to my Butch. As is my comfort, my feelings and my idependance. I expect her to honor me and she does. I expect her to make sure our home is safe, our children are safe and we are all happy. I expect my Butch to help our son grow into a well rounded man because she understands masculinity, and knows what he needs at times when I shake my head over the male behavior. Does my Butch do these things because I can't? NO! She knows I am capable of doing all the above, and I managed to raise my son just fine, as a single mother, before she came along.

I don't understand the hate directed at us Femmes, someone please enlighten me as to why me loveing my Butch is a problem for Jane Lesbian down the street.

[Massive]

All I want to say is I want to be able to give rep to all the femmes posting here who are proud of who they are and I know who I mean, as do they, because they're my friends, Bravo Ladies, I admire you because of your strength, the strength of a good femme gives me faith in humanity, it's just so sad when people feel like the only way they can respond is to make baseless accusations, I enjoy reading these threads and rarely post, because, as a Butch I prefer to show respect to femmes in their zone, So before I go *hugs persi* *hugs Ms Boots* *hugs Jane* *hugs Tyme* *hugs Miss J* *^5 BAD* Thank you for being you.
*steps back into the audience*

[persiphone]

thanks guys! *hugs* Mass it's never ceased to amaze me how open and accepting femmes and butches are and how willing they are to educate even in the face of adversity. it's part of the makeup of butches and femmes, i think. it definitely makes me proud of my femme sisters and to be a femme that can stand next to them.

[persiphone]

Persi, thank you for your response. I don't know why this is such a charged issue but it seems to be an issue in the lesbian realm. I have had conversations with lesbians locally and in other parts of the country who speak out strongly and sometimes not kindly about the butch/femme dynamic. They seem to know the words but don't understand the real meaning of it. That's why this thread and others like it are so important for me to get my head around it. I don't know why this dynamic seems to spark strong emotions in others, but it does.

However, this thread has provided me with some terrific insights already. BADBOY said something that I found very profound for me personally.... "I believe a femme commands the chivalrous acts bestowed on her just by nature of who she is, regardless if she is with a butch or a man." The part that resonated was the last phrase. Because I came out of the hetero world, I've had people simple question and some even accuse me because I claim the ID of gay femme woman. Some have said, "Well, didn't you know you were gay?" And one even accused me of basing my hetero marriage on a lie and she absolutely had no sympathy for the difficulties I faced in a divorce. .....

But BADBOY's statement made me realize that maybe I always was femme---and that it was OK. Perhaps I found what I thought was my counterpart in another gender. One very male ID'd butch friend of mine whose partner also came from a hetero marriage said to me: "Of course some femmes are confused. You are attracted to masculinity and society says that's in a bio male. When you find it in a butch woman, something finally clicks."

So please keep the discussion going about femme sexuality. I'm listening and processing.

i had to come to femme. whether or not i always was i dunno. i started my sexual history at 17 with a woman 10 years older than me. a very girly woman. and we were lesbians. we were together for 9 years, but we also liked men. in looking back on those years, i think that if i had let her strap it on with me, i may have never been with men at all. but i'll never know. she was not masculine in any way. and the types that i was attracted to then were very feminine girls (hell i still check out long legs and gorgeous hair) and very masculine men. but i had to have both because i liked aspects of both. i had my relationship and sex with girls and only sex with men (except for one man but that was 20 years ago).

it wasn't until i went through 5 years of celibacy that i was able to merge the two upon meeting my first butch and suddenly everything was clear to me. however, she ID'd as a butch lesbian, as did several after her and it just wasn't working for me. of course, it wasn't the only reason it wasn't working but it was one factor. i seemed to get on better with masculine ID'd butches and i felt like they understood me more and there was much less abrasion. and i completely get them. whereas before i would scratch my head and wonder wtf just happened.

i experienced a lot of acceptance and a lot of disdain regardless of whatever label i happened to be carrying around. when i WAS a lesbian, men could be really gross about it...lewd. straight chicks always thought you were hitting on them and there was no way to politely tell them that you weren't without them being offended that you weren't ACTUALLY hitting on them. other lesbians looked down on us because of the sex with men factor. bi is apparently not gay or lesbian enough for anyone and that includes the butch/femme folks but not the transfolk. i hear butches constantly express disdain for bi peeps, but i hear the transmen say they like bi's cuz often the transmen ID as straight so it works for them. however, a lot of femmes are reluctant to adopt a bi label even if dating a transman that ID's as straight and frankly, i can't blame them.

now, as a femme...for the past decade...i caught a lot of shit from my straight friends for dating butch. apparently, it was ok to be gay as long as i dated girly girls. but dating butches was crossing the line. needless to say, i have less straight friends now and many more gay ones! it's when i really started evaluating how i define myself. do i really want the same people that coined the term lesbian to decide for me what KIND of gay is ok? i think not. this is my culture. i am a woman that enjoys masculinity expressed in ways OTHER then bio men.

the point is, Jane, that adversity will come at you from many places carrying many different IDs. adversity is not exclusive to one or another. the words "i am not a lesbian" seems to incite a few from one group and that's ok. people have feelings about things. i just don't think there's a right or wrong for other people. i only know what is right for me and me only. you will find what is right for you.

[Miss July]

Bumpin this thread

[BADBOY]

Bumpin this thread

I'll see your bump & raise a bump.

[Enararemn]

Îïòèìèçàöèÿ DLE

[Enararemn]

áåñïëàòíûé ñîôò

[missleigh]

I've dated other femmes, butches and FTM's and even with dating all over the spectrum I've never felt as though my sexuality was ever going to change ~ I just like all kinds of people. Does it make me less of a femme if I date another femme as opposed to a butch? No of course not, I'm a femme who loves people in general so no matter who I date I am always going to be me plain and simple ......... take me for who I am or watch me walk away as I go