Gender-Specific Space

[Selenay]

Should there be gender-specific (women's only or men's only) space?
If so, should these spaces be limited to certain things? (e.g..: bathrooms)
Should they be applicable with private venues? (e.g.: Michigan Womyn's Music Festival, play parties)
Should everything be free to anyone?
Should transgendered/transsexual people be allowed in gender specific spaces? If so, which gender's space?
What about genderqueer people?

Tell me your thoughts.
Be respectful.

[Blavatsky]

Should there be gender-specific (women's only or men's only) space?
If so, should these spaces be limited to certain things? (e.g..: bathrooms)
Should they be applicable with private venues? (e.g.: Michigan Womyn's Music Festival, play parties)
Should everything be free to anyone?
Should transgendered/transsexual people be allowed in gender specific spaces? If so, which gender's space?
What about genderqueer people?

Tell me your thoughts.
Be respectful.

Not sure I understand your premise.
In the U.S.A., where I am from, The Constitution provides for "Freedom of Assembly". That means that non-whites do not have to be granted membership in the KKK. And that the KKK does not have to be granted a float in the Gay Pride Parade. And that the Boy and Girl Scouts of America do not have to grant membership to homosexuals (boycott cookies, yo).
Sooooooo. Are you talking about social pressures when you say "Should be allowed"? Or legally?


P.S. This post is in no way intended to offend.

[Selenay]

Not sure I understand your premise.
In the U.S.A., where I am from, The Constitution provides for "Freedom of Assembly". That means that non-whites do not have to be granted membership in the KKK. And that the KKK does not have to be granted a float in the Gay Pride Parade. And that the Boy and Girl Scouts of America do not have to grant membership to homosexuals (boycott cookies, yo).
Sooooooo. Are you talking about social pressures when you say "Should be allowed"? Or legally?


P.S. This post is in no way intended to offend.

The poll is not about the KKK nor the boy/girl scouts; this poll is specifically referring to gender-specific space and whether or not YOU think it is acceptable.

[Blavatsky]

The poll is not about the KKK nor the boy/girl scouts; this poll is specifically referring to gender-specific space and whether or not YOU think it is acceptable.

Socially or legally?

[Selenay]

Socially or legally?

Either.
Both.
Whichever you'd prefer to respond to.

[msdemeanor]

[COLOR="Blue"] And that the Boy and Girl Scouts of America do not have to grant membership to homosexuals (boycott cookies, yo).

The Girl Scouts do not ban gays. Buy cookies!!!!

[Selenay]

The Girl Scouts do not ban gays. Buy cookies!!!!

I had an extremely traumatic experience with a thin-mint cookie once.
I was devistated by this traumatic experience because I really really loved them and I can't eat them anymore.


However my experiences with the girl scout cookies do not determine whether or not I think there should be genderspecific space, so I will leave them to another thread.

Discussing food has gotten me in trouble before

[Blavatsky]

The Girl Scouts do not ban gays. Buy cookies!!!!

Jesus! She is right!!!! Boycott BoyScouts, not GirlScouts, wow, my bad! Thank you Hon for righting my wrong!

[Blavatsky]

Either.
Both.
Whichever you'd prefer to respond to.

I already responded to the legal issue.
Socially: I am in favor of Constitutional Rights.

[Apocalipstic]

I think it depends on whether it is public or private event.

Definitely any organization that received funding or tax breaks should be open to anyone.

On the other hand.

If I plan a play party in my home, or in a venue I have rented, I want to be able to invite whomever I want and it would likely not include any bio-men.

(though I have been to both kinds of parties and enjoyed myself, and can think of more than one bio-man I might invite if it were a large event.)

[Selenay]

I think it depends on whether it is public or private event.

Definitely any organization that received funding or tax breaks should be open to anyone.

On the other hand.

If I plan a play party in my home, or in a venue I have rented, I want to be able to invite whomever I want and it would likely not include any bio-men.

(though I have been to both kinds of parties and enjoyed myself, and can think of more than one bio-man I might invite if it were a large event.)

What about public restrooms? Should there be single-gender restrooms*?
*working under the assumption that there IS both a men's and women's restroom.

[Apocalipstic]

What about public restrooms? Should there be single-gender restrooms*?
*working under the assumption that there IS both a men's and women's restroom.

I am all for gender neutral, way shorter lines, easier for people with children, Butches...I could go on an on.

I don't see this happening though. I am pleased to see that some places are adding family or gender neutral facilities as a third option.

[joectigger]

Should there be gender-specific (women's only or men's only) space?

I voted that there should be women or men only spaces. I don't think that speaks as much to being gender specific, as it does to being sex specific space though.

If so, should these spaces be limited to certain things? (e.g..: bathrooms)

I would prefer if there were less of these sex specific spaces, but others may find more value in them. I am glad that there is room for both separate and all encompassing spaces.

Should they be applicable with private venues? (e.g.: Michigan Womyn's Music Festival, play parties)

Private venues should be able to have whomever they would like to have at their private functions. And they should also expect to have their criteria for who they choose to have at their function challenged if it is based on someone's sex.

Should everything be free to anyone?

No.

Should transgendered/transsexual people be allowed in gender specific spaces? If so, which gender's space?

I think if someone identifies and presents as a woman, regardless if they were assigned female at birth, they should be allowed in women's only space. And the same in reverse for men's only space. The tricky part comes into what is acceptable for identification and presentation to be indicative of someone being the sex they identify and may actually be legally, if not biologically.

Not all individuals that identify as transgender identify as man or woman, so this may also present comfort issues for transgender individuals feeling and being welcome in sex specific spaces.

What about genderqueer people?

Genderqueer people, like myself, may not find sex specific spaces to be comfortable.

Tell me your thoughts.
Be respectful.

My thoughts in navy blue with respect.

[RebelJ]

I voted yes.I'm lucky i guess,i can use either bathroom and not cause too much of a ruckus.Men don't give me a second glance when i hit the head,as for entering the women's bathroom..all i do is clear my throat and i'm home free to take a whizz/shit in peace.But I'm a few who can pull that off..it's kind of risky for alot of folks,dangerous even.So my best advice is to keep the sexes separated concerning bathroom issues.
Of course,that's my opinion only.What the hell was the question again?.

[tattooed_han]

Should there be gender-specific (women's only or men's only) space?
In general, yes. Such the the women's pools/beaches here. There are numerous reasons that there should be *sex* specific and gender specific places. It is also important to note that there is a difference between sex and gender, just as there is a marked (legal) difference between public sector and private sector. Spaces like this (the women's pools/beaches) are not out to please *everyone* but are ment to create a comfortable space for those who frequent them- for whatever reason (personal/self identity, religious reasons, cultural beliefs, etc.) This is a very tricky issue, but when considering it one must remember that noone can please everyone all the time. Especially when the matter at hand is one that is going to cause exclusionary issues.


If so, should these spaces be limited to certain things? (e.g..: bathrooms)
Well, yes, in the sense of public domain. If there were not limitations how far would the segregation reach? Yes, it is segregation, it is just being based upon sex/gender rather than skin colour or heritage. If there were not limitations in the public realm things could go way out of hand- think about homophobia and the mistaken belief that people seem to have that it is a disease and contractable.

Should they be applicable with private venues? (e.g.: Michigan Womyn's Music Festival, play parties)
"Private" is no longer in the public realm, and whoever is holding a private event should be allowed to make thier own rules as to who is there and the division/sharing of sapce in this sense. Otherwise it is like telling someone who they can and cannot have over at thier house. These things should be clarified, then the guests can decide whether or not they are comfortable with the parameters. If they are not, then they need not attend rather than to attend and find themselves uncomfortable and either harassing someone else or complaining.

Should everything be free to anyone?
People are free to make thier own choices, but that also comes with taking personal responsibility for those choices.

Should transgendered/transsexual people be allowed in gender specific spaces? If so, which gender's space?
I will answer this with a question of my own: why should they not be allowed? If a person is trans... such as FTM, which literally means Female to Male... why should that person, a male for all intents and purposes, not be allowed in a male space? same thing for MTFs. Are they not female? Especially if they identify as such sex/gender and have gone to the ends of the earth to go through all the physical and emotional work to be where they are. I am also in agreement with joectigger- not all trans people identify as gender specific one way or the other... but those that do, that should be respected.

What about genderqueer people?

again, as with joectigger, I will state that most genderqueer people (and thier partners, from personal experience) are not comfortable in gender/sex specific places. again, such as the women's pool/beach, where when we go (as she is most comfortable there and I am more comfortable there than I am at the open beaches). Stared at even by lesbians, much less the older women in the pool... or the lesbian who felt the need to tell us as we were leaving that this is a womens only space... until she looked closer, as I "have" to go barechested in an effort to be able to try to enjoy the beach... and both my partner and I clarified... even though there were 2 other visable trans people/genderqueers nearby, and her g/f trying to stop her from saying anything. It is not a comfortable thing to have no place in this sense to go where I do not get edgy about "who is going to say or do what this time". (and I am in agreement with having the women's only pool/beach)...this is again the issue with gender/sex specific- where do those who are outside of the bio-lines go? It is not very likey there is going to be, in the near future, a Trans Specific public space......

I am also in agreement, to be clear, with the clarification of the public sector vs the private sector. Those are two different monsters, so to speak, and are guided by seperate legal rules and regulations. This topic was focused on gender/sex identification, but the other entities were brought up as examples of the legal ramifications of the questions psed here, and are very valid and good examples. Especially if the topic is going to be about taking "public" spaces/organizations/entities (i.e: a women's only health club. that is a private organization that is memebership exclusive, therefore making it a "private" public space) and making them gender/sex neutral, or, gender/sex exclusive. It brings up perspectives and points of consideration that need to be kept in mind in this discourse.

Tell me your thoughts.
Be respectful.

and, respectfully, my responses are in red.
freedom to be free

[StephanieAlexis]

Should there be gender-specific (women's only or men's only) space?
Absolutely. It's wanted and warranted. (At least by me)

If so, should these spaces be limited to certain things? (e.g..: bathrooms):
Yes (if I'm understanding the question correctly; it's early, still dark outside) it should be limited. I'd think dressing rooms is a good example of that. On the other hand I think the idea of a single stall unisex bathroom is a positive example of how a gender specific space can be made gender neutral for the good of all. (As long as they remember to keep extra ^%$#@ toilet paper around!)

Should they be applicable with private venues? (e.g.: Michigan Womyn's Music Festival, play parties) Ah, but how 'private' is Michfest, or any event that tickets are sold for?
I'd think a party held in someone's house is substantially different and attendees could be limited to those invited by the person on whose property it is being held.


Should everything be free to anyone?
If you're talking accesssibility, no (see answer #1) Gender specific boundaries have their place in society, especially one as hyper-sexualized as ours.
Now if you're talking socialism, I'd have to crack open my Marx and get back to you..


Should transgendered/transsexual people be allowed in gender specific spaces? If so, which gender's space? Yes, they should be allowed in the space that their gender expression aligns with. Yet they should also be respectful of said space. All cissexual/transsexual entitlement should be checked at the door. Or better yet, tossed in the trash.

What about genderqueer people?
N/A

[lumberjill]

Should there be gender-specific (women's only or men's only) space?
Yes
If so, should these spaces be limited to certain things? (e.g..: bathrooms)
Yes, I don't like changing tampons around men and they don't like it either!
Should they be applicable with private venues? (e.g.: Michigan Womyn's Music Festival, play parties)
Firstly, I wouldn't be caught dead at any kind of womyn gathering (bad music and vegan food blah!) Nix on play party, I party at home.
Should everything be free to anyone?
Only if your Abbie Hoffman! Everything is free for a fee!
Should transgendered/transsexual people be allowed in gender specific spaces? If so, which gender's space?
It would have to be disscussed and agreed on respectfully.
What about genderqueer people?
???? see above.