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Thread: Woman Identified Butches

  1. #121
    Basic Member pixiekitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spruce View Post
    Pussywhompus

    Now I'm totally laughing my head off!

  2. #122
    Basic Member preciocilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDNYC View Post
    Thanks for saying this. I often feel at odds as a female-identified butch. It wasn't always this way. When I came out 20-odd years ago, nobody ever asked me if I used male pronouns. Being a woman and butch was not a questionable construction.

    I'm glad we have such a greater acceptance and understanding for gender fluidity today, but I wonder if that space occupied by masculine, queer female-identified butches is still recognized as valid. KD
    KD,
    What is the difference between being a masculine, queer female-identified butch and being woman-identified? Can you PLEASE explain the distinction. Why not just call yourself a butch dyke or butch woman? I pose this question in a curious, sweet way. Thanks !!
    "Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice" -Ti Grace Atkinson

  3. #123
    Basic Member preciocilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinab View Post
    I would like to see more butches stand up and say FEMALE PRONOUNS please!!!! I don't particularily care for calling anyone by a male pronoun...when they aren't male. That is just me...and I won't apologize for it.

    I do it.. because the friends in my circle want it and "need" it...and I asked why at first... but gave up... no offence...if any of you are reading this...

    No offence meant at all...it is just me...and what I'd prefer.

    I've said this before... I often thought it was my age age first...being someone who is in their 40's and growing up the way I did... heck.. maybe I was blind to it... but all my butch friends (and I had a lot) were women... I wonder if I got in contact with them now.... if I could even find any of them.... what they ID with now. I know it isn't my age... it was just my way of justifying my thought process...and I can't do that.

    Make sense?

    Have a great day... I "slept over" as my five year old nephew says... because of it being so darn dark...so I'm late...see ya'll later!
    Stinab....I concur!! I love when butches express a strong enough sense of self and comfortability in their identity to assert that they are female/woman identified, especially in front of large groups of people. Power, can we say oozing with power people .... that idea makes me hot!!

    Have I mentioned that having a "She Daddy" is, in my opinion, one of the major perks a femme receives from being into butches?? I swear, these posts made it hard to get back to work!!

    "Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice" -Ti Grace Atkinson

  4. #124
    Basic Member Ali Mac's Avatar
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    A She Daddy....

    I like that term! And no, I don't throw the term "Daddy" around lightly either.....

    I feel special now.

  5. #125
    Basic Member Ali Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinab View Post
    I would like to see more butches stand up and say FEMALE PRONOUNS please!!!! I don't particularily care for calling anyone by a male pronoun...when they aren't male. That is just me...and I won't apologize for it.
    Thank you, thank you, thank you..........butch does not equal male, I do not like to be referred to with male pronouns when I am a she, and I love that there is a femme around who wants to see more butches prefer female pronouns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You don't have to apologize for not caring to call anyone by a male pronoun when they are not male.

    (Unless they perceive themselves as male and WANT to be considered male, so, thats another topic).

    Ali Mac

  6. #126
    Basic Member HYSterical HERnia's Avatar
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    lol

    Cat-E-Whompus

    When something is cattywhompus, it is skewed, it is out of alignment, and it just doesn't fit in with conventional wisdom

  7. #127
    Basic Member Stinab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by preciocilla View Post
    Stinab....I concur!! I love when butches express a strong enough sense of self and comfortability in their identity to assert that they are female/woman identified, especially in front of large groups of people. Power, can we say oozing with power people .... that idea makes me hot!!

    Have I mentioned that having a "She Daddy" is, in my opinion, one of the major perks a femme receives from being into butches?? I swear, these posts made it hard to get back to work!!
    Hey you ! How was your birthday????

    Me…I still do not understand the whole “daddy” thing and I can’t get anyone to explain it to me in such a way that it doesn’t make me think of my own father.

    I know…I’m naive in some aspects of life…but I’m not stupid!!!! I typically give WAY more than I get in a relationship. I would like to find some equality some day. So I think that is why I don’t get the “daddy” thing… um… please don’t laugh or get upset….maybe I’m a “femme daddy”? I just don’t know if I’m even in the right ballpark!

    Oh… I’m thinking ya’ll are going to yell at me now!
    Last edited by Stinab; 03-15-2007 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Gosh darn nails...won't let me type!
    Stinab!!

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  8. #128
    Basic Member Kayden's Avatar
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  9. #129
    Basic Member AmericanButch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinab View Post
    Hey you ! How was your birthday????

    Me…I still do not understand the whole “daddy” thing and I can’t get anyone to explain it to me in such a way that it doesn’t make me think of my own father.

    I know…I’m naive in some aspects of life…but I’m not stupid!!!! I typically give WAY more than I get in a relationship. I would like to find some equality some day. So I think that is why I don’t get the “daddy” thing… um… please don’t laugh or get upset….maybe I’m a “femme daddy”? I just don’t know if I’m even in the right ballpark!

    Oh… I’m thinking ya’ll are going to yell at me now!


    I would never yell at one of my buddies. If you want to be known as a femme daddy then that is your prerogative dear sweet lady. Maybe you are a Dominant Femme and thats ok too sexy lady, whatever you ID as is perfectly acceptable.




  10. #130
    Basic Member Kayden's Avatar
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    I agree with AB
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  11. #131
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    Yes, I also call myself a dyke and a butch woman. I find that "female-identified" suits me better in terms of how I define my identity broadly. Perhaps it's because "male-identified" is now in common usage.

    I used to be very live and let live about gender, but I feel that we have, in a way, perpetuated the same gender categories we've long resisted as queers when we elide masculinity with a male identity. I want to chip away at this and separate "masculine" from "male" whenever I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by preciocilla View Post
    KD,
    What is the difference between being a masculine, queer female-identified butch and being woman-identified? Can you PLEASE explain the distinction. Why not just call yourself a butch dyke or butch woman? I pose this question in a curious, sweet way. Thanks !!

  12. #132
    Basic Member PrincessFluff's Avatar
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    huge thread drift -- in fact, I'm in a speed boat heading away fast

    Quote Originally Posted by Stinab View Post
    Me…I still do not understand the whole “daddy” thing and I can’t get anyone to explain it to me in such a way that it doesn’t make me think of my own father.

    I know…I’m naive in some aspects of life…but I’m not stupid!!!! I typically give WAY more than I get in a relationship. I would like to find some equality some day. So I think that is why I don’t get the “daddy” thing… um… please don’t laugh or get upset….maybe I’m a “femme daddy”? I just don’t know if I’m even in the right ballpark!

    Oh… I’m thinking ya’ll are going to yell at me now!
    I can give you "MY" daddy thing.. which actually seems to depart a bit from what I see here... and its a bit more on the leather side, but it actually doesn't quite fit that context either...

    so.. here goes, and remember this is NOT everyone's version of Daddy --

    This is NOT about age play or role play. I have a Daddy, she has been my Daddy for a very long time, longer than any of my relationships... and quite recently, I gave her a hard time over the phone and made her admit I'm the femme who's been around the longest in her life. We are the closest of friends, first and foremost -- we love one another, we nuture, we care, and yes, we fight sometimes. We have never had a lover/GF/ or any other type of romantic relationship. In a leather sense, we have never played together except to co-Top ...

    She is now, and will always be my Daddy -- can I call someone else that in a sexual or relationship context, yes, but my Daddy will always be, Daddy of my Heart. I am not a bratty girl, I am not a child, and I don't really need that kind of Daddy stuff (for the most part). My Daddy needs come in a different context and while I have some in a relationship context, they are personal.

    Sometimes, I'm the Mommy to my Daddy's boy ... he's occasionally in need of it.. sometimes I hear "help me Mommy L., what should I do?" and that's fun..

    Does that help at all? and perhaps its a part of my life because my biological father is dead... *shrug*

    I've been thinking a lot about what my Daddy means to me of late, as he's been invaluable to me over the last few months... I've been having a rough time...

    as far as why I call him Daddy ... it just fits .. and its perfect...

    my Daddy, by the way, was once a butch lesbian and is in transition now...

    Sorry for the thread drift...


    International Consul of the Cappuccino Rowdies



  13. #133
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    now *that*, I can identify with!

    Quote Originally Posted by KDNYC View Post
    Yes, I also call myself a dyke and a butch woman. I find that "female-identified" suits me better in terms of how I define my identity broadly. Perhaps it's because "male-identified" is now in common usage.

    I used to be very live and let live about gender, but I feel that we have, in a way, perpetuated the same gender categories we've long resisted as queers when we elide masculinity with a male identity. I want to chip away at this and separate "masculine" from "male" whenever I can.
    ...and agree wholeheartedly! So, heck, you've got a vote from this two-spirit...

    Mir
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  14. #134
    Basic Member Spruce's Avatar
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    Smile She-Daddy's Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by Stinab View Post
    Hey you ! How was your birthday????

    Me…I still do not understand the whole “daddy” thing and I can’t get anyone to explain it to me in such a way that it doesn’t make me think of my own father.

    I know…I’m naive in some aspects of life…but I’m not stupid!!!! I typically give WAY more than I get in a relationship. I would like to find some equality some day. So I think that is why I don’t get the “daddy” thing… um… please don’t laugh or get upset….maybe I’m a “femme daddy”? I just don’t know if I’m even in the right ballpark!

    Oh… I’m thinking ya’ll are going to yell at me now!
    Why would we yell at you?! The daddy thing is obviously very individual for each person/couple. Not every butch id's as a daddy....certainly I s'pose not every Daddy id's as a butch, either.

    I don't know if I'm trying to explain it to you so you don't think of your own father... if you can't seperate the two, you probably don't want to go there! But I can tell you everyone I've been with who likes to use the term has made it clear it has absolutely nothing to do with our actual parents. Same goes with the Mommy distinction.

    But then, I'm only comfortable with those terms and dynamics in the context of the bedroom or a scene and I come from that perspective and experience. To me, Daddy role is not about being the one to give more (or less) in a relationship. That needs to be as equally give-and-take as ever.

    And, um.....I'd be curious to understand more about a "femme-daddy" mwawr

  15. #135
    Basic Member spiKe_69's Avatar
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    She Daddy in the house!

    Spruce -

    I LOVE this terminology!! I am definitely a "She Daddy" also.

    Preciocilla -

    This is one butch that will always do that. I do not conform to any other's belief as to who I am or who I should be. I do not answer to sir, hym, hy, he or any other male pronoun. In any group setting if I were addressed as such, I would politely ask to be addressed appropriately, as a woman. By my first name.
    I will, however, allow the woman I am in love with to address me as "Daddy", at the appropriate time of course!

    Stinab -

    It's ok to be naive in certain matters of life. We have to remember that every moment of our lives is a learning experience. I myself didn't know about the whole "Daddy" role until my recent relationship. But I can tell you, I LOVE it! It's a role I take seriously and it's very intense.
    I also agree with Spruce about how it is a different aspect for every person. It all depends on the person/couple and their needs.

    I would also like to say that as lesbian women, we are powerful. I do not believe that we need to be addressed in male pronouns to feel powerful.

    That's my $0.02 for now.

    ~peace

    spiKe


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  16. #136
    Basic Member Kayden's Avatar
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  17. #137
    Basic Member Spruce's Avatar
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    Talking Yum.

    Quote Originally Posted by spiKe_69 View Post



    I would also like to say that as lesbian women, we are powerful. I do not believe that we need to be addressed in male pronouns to feel powerful.

    That's my $0.02 for now.

    ~peace

    spiKe
    Thank you so much for those words, Spike. There really is something so powerful and elemental about lesbian women. To me, being addressed in male pronouns is like a put-down. It feels diminishing and dismissive of the struggle I've experienced, and the pride I feel in my strong, female, reality.

    It feels so good to see femme-id'd women in here recognize us for being butch women, and who want that and are attracted to that in a lover.

  18. #138
    Basic Member LadyMerrick's Avatar
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  19. #139
    Basic Member Spruce's Avatar
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    Exclamation I overlooked something

    Preciocilla - i'm sorry I missed your birthday in my limited on-line time.

    So - happy birthday from this She-Daddy

    Too bad I couldn't have been there to give it to you in person

    Hope it was a good one!

    ~Spruce

  20. #140
    Basic Member silveroak1's Avatar
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    I most definatively Id as a woman ...butch ..yep...Daddy ...Daddy -O.....yep....swing boi.. Knight ....strong ....artist...yet in touch with my submission..My mothers first daughter...all those things that make me uniquely ....just me...I'm as strong or stronger then most men...yet ...equally as tender.......I have always been in a "mans " world when it comes to business....fortunately I'm a little clever ..and "use" that to my advantage.......
    I believe that ..in this forum (meaning B/F.com) I have come to know acceptance at a different level....and truly appreciate the Butch admiration ...For a time ...I felt that if I didnt Id as "he or Hym....that I wasnt butch enough...or if I wasnt transistioning ....I might be viewed with a bit of disdain...or non acceptance.....Fortunately what I have experienced here...I have to say has a very serene and relaxing affect for me...truly ....in the day to day ....of it all.....I deal with all kinds of feedback or responses...about how I present to the world....some good ...some not so good...but I also know that in the end of the day ...it feels great ( really ) to find acceptance come so easliy here....I certainly think it transfers out into the world...and has a positive affect...

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  21. #141
    Basic Member Spruce's Avatar
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    Yep

    Welcome, Silver.

    We know about that pressure and those expectations and that disdain.
    Kinda sad in our own communtiy, huh?

  22. #142
    Basic Member spiKe_69's Avatar
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    Kayden -

    Thanks for the welcome!!

    Spruce -

    I hear ya!! One of the things I find completely amazing is how I always feel walking down the street with my femme, holding her hand and cuddling as we walked. Then I would look at the faces of people around us, and sometimes there were compliments and sometimes it was pure disgust.
    Props to the femmes here that are supportive of women identified butches, more specifically, the femme I'm in love with is amazing! Her support for me, her desire for me and her love for me are a gift that I treasure with all of my heart. She loves that I am a strong, confident and proud butch lesbian.

    Silveroak -

    I understand completely - times have been hard when simply looking for a place to live, a new job or even just walking down the street. Because I have short hair, wear men's clothes and walk with a confidence and air of strength that others find intimidating, I am judged by them. I am called a "dyke" by people who don't even know me, of course in a derogatory tone. When I was younger and lived in a "rougher" neighborhood, often times things were thrown at me.
    Because of this, I am a stronger woman today. I accept no "bullshit" in my life. This strongly enforces who I am and what I am capable of.
    It is so true - what you expect in life is what you should give into the world.

    **sigh**

    I must get some work done.

    later~


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  23. #143
    Basic Member OBB Orginal BadBoi's Avatar
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    I don't feel I should have to say female-identified or woman ided any more then a femme or any other woman would in ownership of being a woman or female. I simply am--it's not something I mentally/emotionally connect with & identify with/am transitioning to --it's a fact of reality that I am of the female sex & i'm no less woman then any other so why should I have to advertise my connection with being a woman for others to understand it. It's like being a redhead and calling yourself a nonblonde of the red haired identified type of BS cuz it's easier for people to try & disconnect butch & woman totally dismissing the notion that a butch can be a woman the same way any other woman is then just accepting that without questioning or making them prove it with the statement of self indentification.

    The world is becoming so open to how people indentify when it matches what in thier eyes fits into the binary image that it's even more blind to others who visiblely break the rules.

    In my life in terms of the general publix I went from being seen as a not acceptible butch/lesbian to later getting props cuz queer & gay somehow became the new cultural cool fashion trend for str8 people embrace & even look like. However where before I was not accepted as a lesbainwoman I'm nolonger even seen as a member of this as being a butch somehow turned me into the new str8 giving me a sex change or impleying I want 1 to make me easier for others to understand cuz the general publix still really only wants to accept the new str8 they invented in this process. Personally I rather go back to being visible & not accepted then to be accepted & made so invisible I actaully have to put a sign on my tits to take ownership of my sex saying yes I'm actaully a woman identified woman which is crazy & I shouldn't feel like I should have to.

    The way I think of it people should feel like they made a mistake and are ingorant if they reffer to me as a he or impley that I should feel like I'm not a woman, cuz it's thier problem not mine that they are inventing a sex change I not only never had but that I have no interest in.

    I used to laugh it off or go with it (cuz I'm so used to it & I didn't want to make others uncomfrontible), but now I make a point of saying "what" & looking at them like they are completely crazy till they retrain thier eyes & realize I'm not male. I can actaully see them think to themselves while looking at me up & down figuring it out--though 1 time I actaully had a woman so confused by telling her I was a woman that she mocked me agrueing my sex w/me telling me that "sure I am" cuz she was that sure I wasn't she couldn't see it, but other then that ussaully they stare & a light goes on in there brains that I see in there eyes when they finally get it then they apologize or run & hide or give me that oh my god you are a dyke face of terror, but atleast it's honest visbility opposed to continueing this male mask others put on me & hiding under it..

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  24. #144
    Basic Member AZBUTCHDOM's Avatar
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    male terms...my POV

    I know that many butches feel differently; the one thing that is a constant is that we're all individuals. I appreciate hearing various opinions and insights of the femmes on here.

    Here's the take on my situation:

    I am a hard butch, somewhere between and far from both soft butch and ftm (because I don't want to be a man).
    Probably as masculine as a woman may be and still be a woman.

    When my femmes refer to me in male terms, they are intended and taken as masculine terms. The girls and I honor that I am masculine just as we honor that I am a woman.

    Therefore words like He, handsome, Daddy, Him, Dude, etc. are appropriate.

    I'm not a "She Daddy" because I'm not a feminine Daddy. I'm not a He Daddy either, because that just doesn't sound like it fits for me.

    I don't bind unless I'm in drag, don't care to be called terms that don't feel completely unfamiliar to me: ze, hir, etc. (although hym eventually grew on me) I do not aspire to be a man, I present myself to the world as a woman, however I'm more masculine than many men, including all of the men my femmes have been with. I am the only "male" role model for my girls presently. I am a female with male/masculine and female/feminine energy - but mostly male/masculine.

    It's not to confuse anyone, although it may confuse some; but for me, it's who I've always been, and easy to understand.

    AZBD
    Last edited by AZBUTCHDOM; 03-16-2007 at 05:06 PM. Reason: clarification

  25. #145
    Basic Member AZBUTCHDOM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBB Orginal BadBoi View Post
    I don't feel I should have to say female-identified or woman ided any more then a femme or any other woman would in ownership of being a woman or female. I simply am--it's not something I mentally/emotionally connect with & identify with/am transitioning to --it's a fact of reality that I am of the female sex & i'm no less woman then any other so why should I have to advertise my connection with being a woman for others to understand it. It's like being a redhead and calling yourself a nonblonde of the red haired identified type of BS cuz it's easier for people to try & disconnect butch & woman totally dismissing the notion that a butch can be a woman the same way any other woman is then just accepting that without questioning or making them prove it with the statement of self indentification.
    Yeah dude! Way to put it.

    AZBD

  26. #146
    Basic Member pixiekitty's Avatar
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    Just here to add my name to the list of femmes who love women-identified butches.

    Oh yum.

  27. #147
    Basic Member OneFella's Avatar
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    I'm not a feminine Daddy, I'm a female Daddy. Huge difference to me.
    And, I put Butch WOMAN in my profile as a reminder to this site that there are still many many Butch Women around.


    Lee

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixiekitty View Post
    Just here to add my name to the list of femmes who love women-identified butches.

    Oh yum.

    Grins.. I like decent butches regardless of pronouns.. but definitely a fan and adorer of the woman-ID'd butch

  29. #149
    Basic Member Kayden's Avatar
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    Sounds good to me Jane - you know all us woman-ID'd bois appreciate you
    Silence is golden ........... but duct tape is silver


  30. #150
    Basic Member Spruce's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by AZBUTCHDOM View Post
    I'm not a "She Daddy" because I'm not a feminine Daddy. AZBD
    <chuckling> Dude - I'm not a feminine daddy, either. I bet most of those in here wouldn't fit into that category.

    What can I say? It takes balls to be a woman-identified butch these days

  31. #151
    Basic Member Kayden's Avatar
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    It takes balls to do alot in the world these days, especially being a butch who is also comfortable identifying as a woman
    Silence is golden ........... but duct tape is silver


  32. #152
    Basic Member Amethystluv's Avatar
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    * still loving those female id'd butches ! *

    to you all...

    annie



    Take every chance you get because some things only happen once...



  33. #153
    Basic Member CabernetFemme's Avatar
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    Ok, I have been checking the thread out for awhile, I confess.
    Couldn't help myself any longer....
    had to stop by and say hi....
    very cool.


    cf

  34. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by silveroak1 View Post
    I most definatively Id as a woman ...butch ..yep...Daddy ...Daddy -O.....yep....swing boi.. Knight ....strong ....artist...yet in touch with my submission..My mothers first daughter...all those things that make me uniquely ....just me...I'm as strong or stronger then most men...yet ...equally as tender.......I have always been in a "mans " world when it comes to business....fortunately I'm a little clever ..and "use" that to my advantage.......
    I believe that ..in this forum (meaning B/F.com) I have come to know acceptance at a different level....and truly appreciate the Butch admiration ...For a time ...I felt that if I didnt Id as "he or Hym....that I wasnt butch enough...or if I wasnt transistioning ....I might be viewed with a bit of disdain...or non acceptance.....Fortunately what I have experienced here...I have to say has a very serene and relaxing affect for me...truly ....in the day to day ....of it all.....I deal with all kinds of feedback or responses...about how I present to the world....some good ...some not so good...but I also know that in the end of the day ...it feels great ( really ) to find acceptance come so easliy here....I certainly think it transfers out into the world...and has a positive affect...

    Silveroak~
    A very powerful statement Silveroak.
    It warms my heart to read what you
    have said. Diamond

  35. #155
    Basic Member preciocilla's Avatar
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    Thanks...**Stinab** and Spruce

    Quote Originally Posted by Spruce View Post
    Thank you so much for those words, Spike. There really is something so powerful and elemental about lesbian women. To me, being addressed in male pronouns is like a put-down. It feels diminishing and dismissive of the struggle I've experienced, and the pride I feel in my strong, female, reality. It feels so good to see femme-id'd women in here recognize us for being butch women, and who want that and are attracted to that in a lover.

    Thanks so much for the kind birthday wishes...you guys (butch and femme women...lol) are so sweet...how thoughtful!!
    Spruce....Is there anything better in the universe than being given a present from a FEMALE, not feminine, She Daddy...Absolutely NOT! I am very sensitive, so when I say that you being you: a powerful, vocal woman-identified butch on this site is the best present you could ever give me, I mean it….thanks.



    Spruce also stated, “There really is something so powerful and elemental about lesbian women. To me, being addressed in male pronouns is like a put-down. It feels diminishing and dismissive of the struggle I've experienced, and the pride I feel in my strong, female, reality. It feels so good to see femme-id'd women in here recognize us for being butch women, and who want that and are attracted to that in a lover.”


    Preciocilla’s response: Jesus Christ Spruce, you MUST start a mentoring program for baby butches…they need your perspective! Here is where my politics come out. For the love of God, I can’t fathom why a butch woman would want to reject the historical significance of who she is. Do people ever ask themselves why butches are so reviled and mistreated?

    The butch woman, like all dissidents, radicals and people who take a stand, has always terrified straight men/ patriarchy/ the status quo. If more women became as powerful as you: started calling themselves “She Daddy,” taking other women, and generally rejecting convention….this fucked up sexist system would fall apart.

    Please read Lillian Faderman’s books because she has written several scholarly, brilliantly researched books on how butches, because you threaten and terrify people so much, are very purposefully punished. How are people controlled---they are rejected by others, made to feel inferior, and often times, are brutally attached and beaten into submission.

    Seriously, who fought the cops during Stonewall, the riot that pushed gay liberation to the forefront? Butch dykes and transwomen!!! Not middle class, gender appropriate gays and lesbians. Don’t believe me, look it up and feel pride about who you are!

    Right on Spruce, it would be a put down for someone to reduce butch prowess to inconsequential, heterosexual-style masculinity. How many straight white guys (it’s different for black men) know what it is like to be attacked for simply being who he is? How many have been left by a woman they love because she doesn’t want to be seen as a “dyke” or have been passed over for a job simply because of how uncomfortable people feel around him?

    Men will never experience 20% of the strength that butches express on a daily basis. Spruce is correct, why would you want to reduce yourself to that and give up your historical meaning in the world? I know that it is hard, but that is why creating a strong, supportive community is vital.

    OK, so this topic gets me pretty heated. *smiles*
    "Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice" -Ti Grace Atkinson

  36. #156
    Basic Member Stinab's Avatar
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    Lesbian identified rockin' sweet FEMME!
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    Damn, I love you people....

    Happy St. Patricks Day to one and all....from this VERY Irish....very femme...very happy woman!!!!!

    I love women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I have a busy day...complete with singing with my Trad band... have a wonderful day!!!!
    Stinab!!

    Free your heart from hatred
    Free your mind from worries
    Live simply
    Give more
    Expect less

    Official GPS - Ya you betcha!

  37. #157
    Basic Member Amethystluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by preciocilla View Post
    Thanks so much for the kind birthday wishes...you guys (butch and femme women...lol) are so sweet...how thoughtful!!
    Spruce....Is there anything better in the universe than being given a present from a FEMALE, not feminine, She Daddy...Absolutely NOT! I am very sensitive, so when I say that you being you: a powerful, vocal woman-identified butch on this site is the best present you could ever give me, I mean it….thanks.



    Spruce also stated, “There really is something so powerful and elemental about lesbian women. To me, being addressed in male pronouns is like a put-down. It feels diminishing and dismissive of the struggle I've experienced, and the pride I feel in my strong, female, reality. It feels so good to see femme-id'd women in here recognize us for being butch women, and who want that and are attracted to that in a lover.”


    Preciocilla’s response: Jesus Christ Spruce, you MUST start a mentoring program for baby butches…they need your perspective! Here is where my politics come out. For the love of God, I can’t fathom why a butch woman would want to reject the historical significance of who she is. Do people ever ask themselves why butches are so reviled and mistreated?

    The butch woman, like all dissidents, radicals and people who take a stand, has always terrified straight men/ patriarchy/ the status quo. If more women became as powerful as you: started calling themselves “She Daddy,” taking other women, and generally rejecting convention….this fucked up sexist system would fall apart.

    Please read Lillian Faderman’s books because she has written several scholarly, brilliantly researched books on how butches, because you threaten and terrify people so much, are very purposefully punished. How are people controlled---they are rejected by others, made to feel inferior, and often times, are brutally attached and beaten into submission.

    Seriously, who fought the cops during Stonewall, the riot that pushed gay liberation to the forefront? Butch dykes and transwomen!!! Not middle class, gender appropriate gays and lesbians. Don’t believe me, look it up and feel pride about who you are!

    Right on Spruce, it would be a put down for someone to reduce butch prowess to inconsequential, heterosexual-style masculinity. How many straight white guys (it’s different for black men) know what it is like to be attacked for simply being who he is? How many have been left by a woman they love because she doesn’t want to be seen as a “dyke” or have been passed over for a job simply because of how uncomfortable people feel around him?

    Men will never experience 20&#37; of the strength that butches express on a daily basis. Spruce is correct, why would you want to reduce yourself to that and give up your historical meaning in the world? I know that it is hard, but that is why creating a strong, supportive community is vital.

    OK, so this topic gets me pretty heated. *smiles*


    Amen, sistah..........AMEN...

    Last edited by Amethystluv; 03-17-2007 at 06:50 AM.

    Take every chance you get because some things only happen once...



  38. #158
    Basic Member preciocilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBB Orginal BadBoi View Post
    I don't feel I should have to say female-identified or woman ided any more then a femme or any other woman would in ownership of being a woman or female.

    Hey BadBoi,
    I appreciate your perspective and am glad that you posted here, welcome! However, I believe that it is vital that butches who identify as women make themselves be known as such. In this community, butches who are women have been made to feel less masculine, less sexually powerful and less desired.

    It's important for people to know that there are many types of women, some masculine and some feminine.

    Also, if these butches didn't let me know that they were here, I would have NO reason to stay. Before this thread, I started to question if I, and my version of the butch-femme dynamic, even belonged on this site anymore. I am not queer (I am a dyke) and while I support trans butches 200%, I am not into that emotionally/sexually.

    Have a great weekend everyone!!
    "Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice" -Ti Grace Atkinson

  39. #159
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    Preciocilla, apparently I've missed your birthday, My apoligies. Though slightly belated, I wanted to wish you a very happy birthday, I hope it was a most excellent day.

    OBB, ltns, good to see you around.

    *waving to the rest of the peeps* Great thoughts across the board, I'm short on time right now but will be back.

  40. #160
    Basic Member Stinab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by preciocilla View Post
    Hey BadBoi,
    I appreciate your perspective and am glad that you posted here, welcome! However, I believe that it is vital that butches who identify as women make themselves be known as such. In this community, butches who are women have been made to feel less masculine, less sexually powerful and less desired.

    It's important for people to know that there are many types of women, some masculine and some feminine.

    Also, if these butches didn't let me know that they were here, I would have NO reason to stay. Before this thread, I started to question if I, and my version of the butch-femme dynamic, even belonged on this site anymore. I am not queer (I am a dyke) and while I support trans butches 200%, I am not into that emotionally/sexually.

    Have a great weekend everyone!!
    BINGO baby!!!!! I need to just keep repping you ... but since I can't... here it is again and again and again... WHEN the day comes that we actually get to meet each other...there will be a very expensive bottle of wine... shared between two like minded femme's....and we'll just let those beautiful WOMEN we adore watch us!!!! Maybe they'll join in!!!
    Stinab!!

    Free your heart from hatred
    Free your mind from worries
    Live simply
    Give more
    Expect less

    Official GPS - Ya you betcha!

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