How do you feel about being closeted?

[kaylen_culotta]

I've been closeted more times than I can mention...in some cases I understand it, and in some it just pisses me off. Now, I'm a lesbian who is definitely out, and I will not voluntarily re-closet myself just because someone else is afraid of what they don't understand. The only way to change that fear is education, and I am young enough that I have the energy to do it.

I came out at 18; my mother outed me to my entire extended family; she also took it upon herself to talk shit about my wife, who I had introduced her to, and later told her we were together, and later told her we had gotten married! My mother took it upon herself to call my wife's father, and talk about the two of us behind our backs. She got angry at me once and made discriminatory comments, and I called her on it. No comments since, but both my mom AND dad still try to avoid listening to me when I bring her up. Since they're helping me financially with school, I'm afraid to change my name legally (I've been married for almost 2 years and haven't taken her name yet). They ignore my wife, even though I keep prying their eyes open and making them accept it as much as possible. I can't force them, but I won't allow them to go into denial about it. It is what it is, and I'm not mincing words about it. I won't disclude her from conversations just so people will feel more comfortable.

Even at work, the discrimination. I don't disclude her there either. My life is what it is, and I would rather people leave it if they dont' like it now. I don't want to have to confront anyone 20 years from now about it.

My in-laws closet us for other reasons. They don't understand why we are together, and they don't think it's right that we are together, but they like us individually as people, and they've started to agree to disagree with us - meaning that they've started referencing our coupled status, something I never thought would happen. Their other children are under 15, and they all know about us, but it's not talked about in their house. Which is fine, but when they come to my house to play, we do have conversations and I do try to help them understand. I want them to know me as I am now, and not wonder why the hell I'm always at their house with their sister. They have started asking me questions, and I will answer them honestly (of course within reason), whether or not their parents like it. I'm not going to let my in-laws closet me in my own house.

So much more I could bring up, but you all have said it.

[LadyMerrick]

What are some of the things that y'all would give up your "outness" for? are there things that would be worth it?

Just some food for thought,
LaC

Toughy,
I agree with you 100%. I get the feeling that if we told the world that we are not ashamed of who we are, the world would not be ashamed of us. or maybe that is just wishfull thinking.

I am not sure what I would give up, but so far, i haven't had to give anything up but maybe thats just why Im not the right person to answer.
I do agree with you and Toughy, in this case.. that indeed, if everyone was out, life would be safer and better. Perfect? no. As someone pointed out being a poc, is right out there, and didnt end violence etc.. no argument there. Perfection, no.. but better, yes... If people, could stop thinking of us as "other" and more as the anchoer person , they see every day on the news etc.
I think though, that it is complicated sometimes.. Both a balancing of privacy vs .. need to know. And then there are those, for whom.. its not a clear case of hetero vs homo.. How often do they need to out themselves? For some people, sexuality, is a great deal more fluid than for others.. How often should someone who doesnt know for sure if their next partner will be male or female , need to tell people that thei r sexuality is more fluid..
Always an interesting question to me
Btw, when I was young, I never saw, or almost never saw, a poc on TV , for example.. certainly not in an ad for anything. Theres many subtlties to this business, more so than simply out vs not

[Martina]

i just came out at the new job today. It turns out that our department is the gayest in the school, three of us out of seven. i could tell the guy was, but wouldn't have guessed the dyke. A gay man in another department -- this is a high school -- told me yesterday not to come out to the students. The guy in my department says that he is out to his students, but he has been hassled. Two kids had to be moved to other classes because they were harrassing him. i don't want to be harrassed or have kids be forced to move or even to witness it. So i don't think i am going to come out to the kids. i have been told this school district is rather redneck. i am new to the area, so i didn' t know. Anyway, i am out to everyone in my family and have been out at all my jobs for the last twenty years or so. So this will be as closeted as i have been for a long time.

[LaCarina]

Happy coming out at work day, Martina!!! have a

That is interesting. I work at a very liberal kind of school. It is also very small so people just know thing in general. But when i think back to high school (which wasnt so long ago) I can't think of any out teachers i had.....i dont think tha ANY were out, to us i mean. That is somehting that i had not really thought about. In college, however, all of my queer profs were out and active in the queer community. I wonder why the gap is so large between public high school and college....
Have you thought about coming out to your students? could you talk more about that?

Thank you for your thoughts,
LaC

i just came out at the new job today. It turns out that our department is the gayest in the school, three of us out of seven. i could tell the guy was, but wouldn't have guessed the dyke. A gay man in another department -- this is a high school -- told me yesterday not to come out to the students. The guy in my department says that he is out to his students, but he has been hassled. Two kids had to be moved to other classes because they were harrassing him. i don't want to be harrassed or have kids be forced to move or even to witness it. So i don't think i am going to come out to the kids. i have been told this school district is rather redneck. i am new to the area, so i didn' t know. Anyway, i am out to everyone in my family and have been out at all my jobs for the last twenty years or so. So this will be as closeted as i have been for a long time.

[Ceilidh]

I'm not, and will likely never be, out to my students. Admittedly, I work with a different age bracket.

I think that the difference between hs and college "outness" comes to that magical 18th birthday. At 18 the kids are considered adults and can make their own choices. I don't really think that the sexuality of any hs (or ms or elementary) teacher should be out and about for the students' knowledge. That includes the straight ones. I was questioned about this in another forum, what about the straight teachers mentioning their spouses, etc, and I'm not really for that either. It is hard to avoid though.

[kaylen_culotta]

I'm not, and will likely never be, out to my students. Admittedly, I work with a different age bracket.

I think that the difference between hs and college "outness" comes to that magical 18th birthday. At 18 the kids are considered adults and can make their own choices. I don't really think that the sexuality of any hs (or ms or elementary) teacher should be out and about for the students' knowledge. That includes the straight ones. I was questioned about this in another forum, what about the straight teachers mentioning their spouses, etc, and I'm not really for that either. It is hard to avoid though.

I agree with this one, it is something about 18 that changes things...and I think straight teachers should leave it alone too! I remember high school and middle school pretty well, and we made fun of ALL the teachers who mentioned their significant others at all. For example, in middle school, our health teacher was married to our gym teacher, and that was big thing to the whole school. I dont know what was so big about it, I just remember it being big.

In elementary school, kids think anything having to do with romance or marriage is gross anyways, so whats the point? I'm not kidding. I know several 9 year olds who will confirm this lol.

[Trinity3]

This thread is an offshoot of the "Being Outed" thread.

I had finally come to the point where i felt comfortable coming out to my father's sister. At the moment I was about to tell her, I said something about Billy. She said "who is Billy?" and I was about to say "My Girlfriend" when my father said "Billy is her friend" That shut me up in a way that nothing had before. Not only did i feel like he HATED who i am (which is really not the case) but for the first time in my life i felt like who i really am is NOT ok.

Just as it can be really horrible to be outed by someone else when you are not comfortable with it, I feel like it is just as horrible, maybe even worse, to be closeted when you feel you have nothing to hide.

Please tell me how you feel about this? Has anyone else experienced something like this? How owuld you feel if this happened to you?

Thanks,
LaC

Have I told you that I Love you honey!? Well I Do!
I love that you made this thread and I Have just now finaly got a chance to write in it my thoughts.

Addressing if this had happened to me...I had situations happen with my dad and I but not about this topic, but perhaps it could help in thinking of a resolution. It was about my past with my mother and the abuse. And at times when my dad would want to make a point he too would feel the need to embarrass me in front of people.
One day we had been talking about my past abuse and things I Had been going through regarding that etc. My dad, then not having learned to communicate well...Had then proceeded to tell me what I was going through and when I disagreed my dad then would begin to raise his voice to over power me. I realized he had no idea this was what he was doing, for this happened to him when he was a boy with his dad. I then began to lower my voice to the point of a whispere and my dad realized he was yelling and stopped....I told him there was no reason to yell and that who better to know what I Was going through than myself. And why did he feel the need to get upset with me when I was telling him how I felt.

The other item of embarrassing me...I finally tackled...I was scared too, but I felt that my dad and I Were close and my feelings were valid and he needed to know how this made me feel. I told him as nice as possible that it hurt me when he would do that and he said it was because it seemed the only time I would listen to him...I Said no dad, its the only time you really hurt me. And if you want me to listen, try talking to me, not at me, not yelling, not bitching, but talking to me. Ever since those major times, my dad and I learned to communicate in a way that seemed to bring us even closer together. I think it was then my dad finally seen me as a woman and not a little girl anymore...I am sure it was difficult for him to let go of that little girl, his little girl...But what he got in return was a best friend, the best friend who saw him into his final journey.

I know a lot of rambling to get to this point....I think I went into that because I think I Would have corrected my dad and said no dad "Billy is my Girlfriend, you know that", Regardless of his personal issues with the topic I would have made sure he knew that I was not alright with him putting words into my mouth. Because it was his sister and not just anyone outside the family..I would have confronted it head on at that time...and asked the question as to what makes him feel so uncomfortable about my choice and preferance and if it changed his love for me. I would have tried to keep my raw emotions at bay to really get to the heart so that he and I could learn and grow.

Sweetie, You ARE OK....Remember, you are happy being you that's what's important....Others who are not ok with who you are, or that make you feel its not ok who are you....Well that is their personal issues, not yours! Sometimes I think our parents have a certain expectation of how THEY want us to be and when we aren't what they expected they feel ashamed....Not about us...But perhaps because they feel they somehow failed as parents. Are they wrong for feeling that? No because just like our feelings are valid so are theirs. They must look past their expectations to the actual person and be proud they had raised someone strong enough to know that being different is OK!

Ok, I know a lot of rambling....I hope somewhere in their I did make a point and that it somehow made sense LOL
Sleep Deprivation...Not recommended!

Love you sweetie, can't wait to see you and your boobage!!!!!

[LaCarina]

I have to say that I disagree. Maybe it is just the school that i work at (a waldorf school large by waldorf standards very very small by all other standards) but I had 9 year olds who knew both me and Billy and knew that we are together, even getting married. Not one of them even batted an eye. The parents felt that it was important for their children to know queer adults so that they can grow up knowing that it is all wonderful. This is sorely off topic. So, bringing it back to the topic, I think that it is important for kids to see that people, just like mom and dad, are queer, people in authority. So, i would have to say that the idea that straight teachers can talk about their spouses but queer teachers cannot is...closeting and unnecessarily so... I guess i just dont see the harm in mentioning a spouse. Now i am not saying that teachers should be sexual, good lord no, but i am saying that queer does not have to be about sex. It is about life. And it is not ok with me that other teacher's heterosexual spouses come to school, bring them lunch etc, and mine can't for fear that the students might see.

Best,
LaC

I agree with this one, it is something about 18 that changes things...and I think straight teachers should leave it alone too! I remember high school and middle school pretty well, and we made fun of ALL the teachers who mentioned their significant others at all. For example, in middle school, our health teacher was married to our gym teacher, and that was big thing to the whole school. I dont know what was so big about it, I just remember it being big.

In elementary school, kids think anything having to do with romance or marriage is gross anyways, so whats the point? I'm not kidding. I know several 9 year olds who will confirm this lol.

[Trinity3]

I have to say that I disagree. Maybe it is just the school that i work at (a waldorf school large by waldorf standards very very small by all other standards) but I had 9 year olds who knew both me and Billy and knew that we are together, even getting married. Not one of them even batted an eye. The parents felt that it was important for their children to know queer adults so that they can grow up knowing that it is all wonderful. This is sorely off topic. So, bringing it back to the topic, I think that it is important for kids to see that people, just like mom and dad, are queer, people in authority. So, i would have to say that the idea that straight teachers can talk about their spouses but queer teachers cannot is...closeting and unnecessarily so... I guess i just dont see the harm in mentioning a spouse. Now i am not saying that teachers should be sexual, good lord no, but i am saying that queer does not have to be about sex. It is about life. And it is not ok with me that other teacher's heterosexual spouses come to school, bring them lunch etc, and mine can't for fear that the students might see.

Best,
LaC

AMEN!!!

Agreed!

[pinkcheeks]

My mother says things like "My sexuality is none of their business" but if she were heterosexual she would talk about her boyfriend/husband and she would bring him to any faculty party etc... Why does it have to be different bcause she is Queer?

you tell it like it is!!!!!!!!! thank you sooooo much for this thread, LaCarina!!!!!!

xxoo... pinkcheeks

[Ricochet_]

How important is being out?
To me being out is very VERY important. I would never even dream of taking a job where i couldnt be out. but that is just me.

What are some of the things that y'all would give up your "outness" for? are there things that would be worth it?

Just some food for thought,
LaC

Being Out... How important is it?

I think it's important. I also think that being out has it's levels. Some are willing to tell the world about themselves, and some are not. I, myself, feel it's my business. I'm not all up and in the general public's face about my preference.

As far as employment... I'm not going to say that I'll only take a job that accepts gay/lesbians. I mean, how in the hell do you find out if they do or not? Check out their track record as far as partner benefits? Do you ask them what their policy is on lesbian hiring? I'm not gonna do that, if I seriously want the job. No way, Jose!!!

Eventually co-workers have always found out, one way or another, about my preference. It didn't seem to be a big deal. But then again, I'm in a job classification that usually is full of men and lesbians. Once a relationship is established with the men, it's usually smooth sailin'. Becoming one of the guys happens!! And yes, there may be a male or two that will say a woman does not belong, but hey, I just tell them the "boys club" is outdated, we are in the 21st century.

Several companies that I have worked for, including a sheriff's dept., have had benefits for partners. Benefits were provided as long as there was a declared "domestic partnership."

What would I give up for outness? I would only give up outness for my partner and employment. Other than that, nothing. I'm too old to start over, and have worked too hard for what I have.

[Ceilidh]

As far as employment... I'm not going to say that I'll only take a job that accepts gay/lesbians. I mean, how in the hell do you find out if they do or not? Check out their track record as far as partner benefits? Do you ask them what their policy is on lesbian hiring? I'm not gonna do that, if I seriously want the job. No way, Jose!!!

Oh, I actually do ask. lol Then again, I'm totally nosey like that. I have turned down employment at a school because of its policy on this issue. And that was when I wasn't sure what I'd be doing in the next school year. It was terrifying, but so was the paper that they asked all of their teachers to sign. I just couldn't do it.

LaC, I wouldn't bring a male to school to have lunch with me either. School is school and my attention should be focused.

[RhayneDancer]

Being Out... How important is it?

I think it's important. I also think that being out has it's levels. Some are willing to tell the world about themselves, and some are not. I, myself, feel it's my business. I'm not all up and in the general public's face about my preference.

As far as employment... I'm not going to say that I'll only take a job that accepts gay/lesbians. I mean, how in the hell do you find out if they do or not? Check out their track record as far as partner benefits? Do you ask them what their policy is on lesbian hiring? I'm not gonna do that, if I seriously want the job. No way, Jose!!!

Eventually co-workers have always found out, one way or another, about my preference. It didn't seem to be a big deal. But then again, I'm in a job classification that usually is full of men and lesbians. Once a relationship is established with the men, it's usually smooth sailin'. Becoming one of the guys happens!! And yes, there may be a male or two that will say a woman does not belong, but hey, I just tell them the "boys club" is outdated, we are in the 21st century.

Several companies that I have worked for, including a sheriff's dept., have had benefits for partners. Benefits were provided as long as there was a declared "domestic partnership."

What would I give up for outness? I would only give up outness for my partner and employment. Other than that, nothing. I'm too old to start over, and have worked too hard for what I have.

^5, Rico! As I recall, we've had many a conversation over the years about being gay and what it means in relation to jobs, family, friends, etc...and are actually in agreement about most things, including this topic.
To those who say: We MUST be out...I say: YOU do what you want and let ME do what I want. I respect your choices, but please be considerate enough to respect mine as well.
That's not to say I'm not out at work, because I am; but it's not like I went striding onto the job site my first day and loudly proclaimed: I'm queer, I'm here, get used to it! It's usually obvious to people I'm gay: the way I carry myself, the way I walk, the way I prefer to dress. Add in the uniform I wear (and the fact that corrections tends to attract a lot of gay women) and there you have it. Although the fact that I wear earrings (studs) and keep my fingernails shaped (short, tyvm!!) and buffed to a high gloss tends to make some folks wonder: Is she or isn't she?
Where I work, we have alot of gay women, so it isn't an issue about being out; one usually gets asked if you're one of the 'girls' , and when you say 'yup', you get a 'kewl' and that's that.
Were I some strident, militant female, I doubt I'd be accepted so easily. What my coworkers are interested in is: Will she be there to protect my back when trouble starts and I need help? The answer is yes and has been proven numerous times. My first use of force happened barely a month after I started, and when the inmate was subdued, my MALE partner grinned and said: Girl, I'll want you at my back any day when there's a fight. You have balls. I just hadda grin and say: Dude, I have something better: brass ovaries.
BTW...just like Rico, no spring chicken here...we grew up in the days when the Stonewall riots happened. I am judged and accepted by those around me for WHO I am, not for my preference and lifestyle. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

[LaCarina]

I ask too. I would never take a job that wasn't ok with me beign out. That doesnt mean that I wear a rainbow bikini to work or anything. I think that planning the wedding has been really great for me because it is somehting that the women around and at my work (parents included) lke to ask me about. They ask about all the technicalities of having a butch groom: you may kiss the bride? i now give you mr? and mrs? will billy wear a tuxc etc. Maybe if my work wasnt the way it is i would feel differently.... But i feel that i CAN be a hard-ass about this. Maybe if i couldnt, i wouldnt. Just goes to show what a little time can do.

What i do know is that even though i am a kindergarten teacher, there are queer high school kids at my school who have told me that the fact that i am around has make them feel.....that they are ok. That is yet another thing that I would not, at this point, give up.

Best to all,
La

P.S. I didnt mean a spouse to have lunch with....i meant...ya know, you forgot lunch etc. I could have easily said my purse since i seem to misplace it so often

Oh, I actually do ask. lol Then again, I'm totally nosey like that. I have turned down employment at a school because of its policy on this issue. And that was when I wasn't sure what I'd be doing in the next school year. It was terrifying, but so was the paper that they asked all of their teachers to sign. I just couldn't do it.

LaC, I wouldn't bring a male to school to have lunch with me either. School is school and my attention should be focused.

[Martina]

TY LaC for the flower!

i do have to give this some thought. i do not know what i will say when and if they start asking about my personal life. i am just not used to not being out. But i think i am going to not come out -- and not lie -- to the students. i am a first year teacher. i have enough to handle. We'll see how it goes.

[red scorpion]

I spent way to many years being miserable and unhappy not to come out right away. Not sure how everyone is going to handle it but I guess I will find out soon. I just came out this past week. I'm sure many will not understand but thats thier issue. My dad will probably disown me. I already know his opinions on the matter and they aren't good. I have a double edged sword though.....not only am I a lesbian but my lover is black and I am white. It's funny but when we are together in public don't know which they are making faces at......I'm quite surprised just how comfortable I am since I was the type that always thought first about what people will think of me.....NO MORE. I am ready to do me. I need to be happy and free. I just don't want to hide the love and passion I feel when I am with my love.....

[~Skye~]

I know this feeling pretty well. My family tends to do this if I say girlfriend they always have to correct me and say "friend". It angers and saddens me every time. But that's only because I know it will lead to more-and possibly deeper- insults from them if I were to correct them. My best tactic so far is to just let it roll off.