Is There Such Thing As Femme Rivalry?

**oregon_femme** · 09-22-2005, 12:55 PM

Is there such a thing as femme rivalry?

What about femme jealousy?

Do you believe that some femmes have issues with ALL other femmes and therefore cannot bond or maintain femme friendships?

Not hoping for drama please, just your honest opinions and some discussion?

Thanks!

Peace Out ~

Pamela

**gaymer** · 09-22-2005, 01:07 PM

rivalry... yes, i've seen it. i dont see why people cant work things out though... cuz it seems to me... who could be a better friend to you than another femme... someone who has walked a similar path as you...

*shrug*

**Morningstar** · 09-22-2005, 01:15 PM

i believe u an be very good friends with other femmes...... no matter who they r. depends on the femme ....like having friends of any sort..... there's also trust as a friend as well...... and respect.
had a femme frined once....... a on line femme buddy...... then she ahhhhh went after my butch..... and wel....... not a pretty subject.
but yes....... i love to have other femme friends to confide in... shop with... do lunch with... gossip with ..lol

**Jar** · 09-22-2005, 01:18 PM

I agree with Gaymer. I've seen it too and I would have to say yes to all of the above questions.

**cecilia** · 09-22-2005, 01:40 PM

Of course there can be. For a variety of reasons i'd imagine: jealousy, feeling threatened etc. , wanting the same butch etc. etc. as people have mentioned. I love to have femme friends and have met great ones in the past. I have mostly straight friends here in chicago but am hoping to meet new ones.

**RopeBurner** · 09-22-2005, 02:35 PM

Gawd YES....and it's very unattractive to butches. A femme that cannot get along with the other women and see them only as competition is very insecure and buying into that straight women sterotype that women cannot be friends with each other.

If a femme feels they have to be on guard around their butch, then something is wrong with the relationship or the femme. Hy knows how to say 'no thank you' to the advances of others and if hy doesn't, then you wouldn't want hym anyway. Thank gawd for the Femme Posse in our community out west.

Jealousy is a given for people, it's what you do with it that can be a problem. An undercurrent of 'wait until we get home' because you're jealous about someone talking to your butch or how you perceive your butches behavior is a big turn off.

AND boyz, you're not off the hook--butches have similar behavior--peeing on their femme or even exes when other butches talk to a femme. Spreading gossip or lies about a butch because hy's a perceived threat. Acting like some '50's hoodilum that is goin' rumble with ya cuz ya asked hys femme to dance---puleeeze. I know you're reading this and thinking I am exaggerating, sadly, I am not.

Rope--

**darlingfemme** · 09-22-2005, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by cecilia

Of course there can be. For a variety of reasons i'd imagine: jealousy, feeling threatened etc. , wanting the same butch etc. etc. as people have mentioned. I love to have femme friends and have met great ones in the past. I have mostly straight friends here in chicago but am hoping to meet new ones.

Why did you have to move? *grin*

**cecilia** · 09-22-2005, 02:57 PM

i wonder sometimes...LOL. good to hear from you darling....

**oregon_femme** · 09-22-2005, 02:58 PM

I am excited at the responses. I have wanted to address this for a long time, but have been afraid to cause waves. Thank you so much for discussing this!

As the Butches have stated, unamimously so far, yes, there is femme rivalry.

And Moringstar, I am thinking your story of the online femme buddy was also a form of rivalry.

There are femmes, right here in our community, who get along with and are sweet to EVERYBODY. People like FemN, Jenstar, Morningstar, Concrete Angel, and oh so many, many more. Maybe I shouldnt mention names, cause these are just a few of the shining examples. They seem to do great getting along with all the other femmes and Butches.

So, whats up with the jelousy? Why do certain femmes have to put down other femmes? Make up stories and spread gossip?
It can't make them feel good about themselves.

I have been a victim of this a couple of times right here in our community.
I never say a bad word about anyone, but I have a couple of really bizarre, cruel stories floating around about me. Some of you have prolly heard them.

But, its all good. In the words of Rodney King....

"Can't we all just get along??"

**Darsha** · 09-22-2005, 03:00 PM

I for one crave Femme friendship. Lucky for me, the FABU-East Femmes have a monthly Femme Tea, which is a marvelous time. Love spending time with such amazing Femmes. But it's a group social situation, not a heart-to-heart friends kind of thing. Definitely can meet and connect at a Femme Tea and strike up a friendship from there. I must say, that at the Bash, I was blown away by the Femmes. To the point of awe and reverence for such amazing women. I wasn't quite sure if I wanted to sleep with them or BE them, but I quickly figured out that neither was the case (A. I

my TransGuy. B. I AM them - yay I belong!). My soul rejoices that there are so many of us beautiful, sexy, intelligent, "inappropriately fabulous", poised, classy, sassy, confident Femmes. We freekin rock!

I must say that there were some Femmes that I met, with whom I would love to develop stronger ties. Not sure exactly what keeps that from happening, but it makes me sad that it isn't.

There will always be people in any population who are incapable of connecting meaningfully with others without undermining and destroying them. But I think it's possible for most of us to connect with other Femmes without wanting to assume their identities or trying to get with their Butches. We can use all of the support and solidarity that we can create for ourselves.

**Morningstar** · 09-22-2005, 03:08 PM

I agree with rope.......
i am not easly jealous...... it doesn't get u anywhere... but aggravation.
but then it takes a lot to get me jealous ......for example
my x had this strong desire that hy just had to have femme friends......and claimed hys other x.. had a problem with it......
well i had no problem with it....... in fact i enjoyed there friendship along with hym
until
one steped over the line and well thats another topic.

its all about respect ......

I have plenty of femme friends on line and in person here..... we enjoy each others company a lot and the ones who r attached....... i deeply and strongly respect there relationship.

**xthelucasx** · 09-22-2005, 03:14 PM

It's called "cattiness" and can be recognized by questions like:

"Is that girl prettier than me?"
or
"Am I prettier/smarter/better than any girl you've ever met in your whole life ever?"

Like Ropeburner said, butches do it too, but usually with more grunting and fist pounding. Shit, all people do it, straight, gay, whatever.

I think it stems back to basic primordial instincts -- reverting to animalistic behaviors to ensure the survival of our species and our rank among the tribe. Or it could just be basic run of the mill insecurity.

**jattitude73** · 09-22-2005, 03:14 PM

I agree with Darsha....Society has people in it that are not
1) emotionally capable enough
2) maturity challenged
3) just plain screwey!

But we will find this in ANY socitial arrangement...women, men, for that matter dogs have rivalry! I have seen an many femme "pissing contests" as I have butch "pissing contests". To narrow it down to a lesbain trait is, to me, moot. because EVERYONE has it....and jeeeeeesh I wish they didn't.

*shrug*
Human nature is a bitch sometimes.

My .02
~Jenn

**oregon_femme** · 09-22-2005, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by jattitude73

I agree with Darsha....Society has people in it that are not
1) emotionally capable enough
2) maturity challenged
3) just plain screwey!

But we will find this in ANY socitial arrangement...women, men, for that matter dogs have rivalry! I have seen an many femme "pissing contests" as I have butch "pissing contests". To narrow it down to a lesbain trait is, to me, moot. because EVERYONE has it....and jeeeeeesh I wish they didn't.

*shrug*
Human nature is a bitch sometimes.

My .02
~Jenn

Nodding at these thoughts. Yes, it occurs everywhere, of course. Straight women are guilty of this behavior, as are Butches, men, and yup even dogs.

But....I am was only concerned with the "femme-femme" social dance in this discusson. And thats what I am most interested in hearing bout.

I do want to preface everything I say and all my posts with this....

I think ALL of the femmes here are awesome!

But it seems like Butches are easier to open up to. I trust them more with my personal stuff. I have hardly ever had a Butch disclose things I have told them in confidence. I have had more than a few femmes do that to me. I feel more connected to my Butch friends. Though I do have a best friend here that is a femme. (Hi Tonya!

) And alot of really, really great femme friends here that I just love like sisters...

Too many to mention, but totally STELLER women.

Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say is that sometimes it seems like there are femmes that are, how did someone earlier say...Catty?
Yes, thats it, a few are catty. And I have yet to see a catty Butch.
Though I have seen a few who tell tall tales....but thats another thread, right?

**babyangeleyez** · 09-22-2005, 07:47 PM

I think I get along with other femmes ok, but I find that I get along best with my straight female friends. I guess, considering where I live at, that femmes are always trying to get with the same group of butches, and that is why we feel threatend. Its not a thing of being insecure with your relationship, its just that you know that behind your back, another is gonna be sticking a knife in it. I've had & seen it happen. One femme "pretends" to be your friend just so she can steal your butch.

**Sun** · 09-22-2005, 08:19 PM

I have to admit that the topic of this thread made me laugh out loud. Perhaps if it were called "Discussion on Femme Rivalry" I would not have laughed so hard. No disrespect to anyone in here...least of all you Oregon Femme, I just have had a few tastes of femme rivalry and acknowledge that there is a very thick layer of insecurity that enters into the picture when anyone takes up a "rivalry". I see it as a major sign of immaturity and always appreciate femmes who steer clear of drama. For that matter a thread that discusses Butch rivalry would be useful as well though again, the immaturity that flames such rivalry bores me to death.

I recently was accused of pursuing someones partner when I was new to the site back in the spring. I was so taken aback by this information because I saw right through it and into the core issue. I was new here and looking for friends in this community who might live in my resgion. I PM'd a few people. No big deal. I was seeing someone, I was not "looking". As a matter of fact, I was really into the idea of new friendships evolving from the this site. I have a lot of friends who dont really "get" the Butch-femme dynamic in the same way that I do.

I never came across Butch's who freak when a single Butch sends a note to their partner until I came to this community. Secure Butch's and femmes dont seem to have this issue.

As a matter of fact, I now have friends on this site who would not think twice about my sending a PM or an email to their femme. So recently when I heard from a disgruntled butch, about how I came onto hys partner back in the spring by sending a Pm about getting together with locals, I was floored. The fact that the partner who seems like a very lovely person but is in no way "my type" would not have been someone that I would have pursued did not seem to enter into this Butch's realm. Now this is a couple that I reached out to over the summer and expressed how happy I was for them in celebration of their love.

Though I was offended...I could see through it, I saw the pitiful insecurity that generated that comment, I responded that the comment was out of line, and innacurate, and I tried to let it go. It still pisses me off that anyone would accuse me of trying to take their partner away from them. If a partnership is solid and healthy, Butch's should be able to be friends with femmes, femmes should be able to be friends with Butch's and everyone should be able to get along. Rivalry is born (imo) of intense insecurity and the sense that someone is going to "take something away from them (ownership) or that there is something better right around the corner.

I respect and admire the people that live happy and contented lives...those of you who treat one another with respect and dignity make this community and our world for that matter a much nicer place to be.

I will say this....there is a really amazing community of femmes in here and I have been blown away by the "quality" of people that I am meeting. Its unreal sometimes. I really love it here. I spent almost 9 years in a relationship, and I was totally spoiled on what a wonderful femme is and can be. My former partner is just the best..an amazing person whom I love tremendously and have an incredible friendship with. She is so special. Though we grew in different directions, our respect and honor never wavered. Friends are often amazed at how well we have navigated our seperation and friendship.

As a single person I really am loving the diversity in here and the chance to meet so many interesting people. For those who get involved in rivalry and drama...I would suggest finding a more worthwhile pursuit. Just my 2 cents worth.

Peace....

**dance2live05** · 09-22-2005, 08:55 PM

Well stated Sun,
I most certainly understand the need though to talk about these issues though. This is a subject matter applies to all realtionships, gay or straight. Developing the maturity and trust that is neccessary in a relationship, helps to cut through the bullshit and all the other things that can hinder them. The gay community in general needs to needs to be able to be unified, so we can stand strong up against opposition. Talk about issues, sure, create anything beyond understanding, absolutely not.

D2L

**Kelt** · 09-22-2005, 08:55 PM

Hey Sun,

You really hit the nail on the head with this one. I could not have stated these points any better. Quality people with quality values and a sense of security within themselves and thier own relationships should have no problems with the ideas you put forth.

I have had the good fortune to meet many fine individuals on this site, making several good friends, and even finding a the woman of my dreams. There are many more I hope to become aquainted with as well. Whether butch or femme, I welcome all as friends and my lassie is encouraged to do the same and does. She has her own mind and the ability to know what is right for her, I have no need to monitor her friendships nor does she with me.

Thank you for putting out some good common sense that we can all use.

**oregon_femme** · 09-22-2005, 09:12 PM

Yes! I totally agreed with Sun and quickly wrote Sun a PM to express my awe and appriciation for the post.

I have noticed that so far NO ONE has voted "No" on the Poll.

Interesting......

femmegirrl · 09-22-2005, 09:42 PM

First..hi pam! ((((PAM)))) you are my best friend here too!

I do have to say that in a general sense, I get along better with butches than with femmes, I love femmes and enjoy their company, but I find that I can talk to butches without worrying about whats going to happen after that conversation. That does not mean that i don't trust any femmes, but I just feel that for me personally, it is easier for me to open up and trust butches. it has always been that way for me, and probably always will be...

great thread! I will be back soon to say more...

xoxo tonya

**lighthouselover** · 09-22-2005, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Kelt

Hey Sun,

You really hit the nail on the head with this one. I could not have stated these points any better. Quality people with quality values and a sense of security within themselves and thier own relationships should have no problems with the ideas you put forth.

I have had the good fortune to meet many fine individuals on this site, making several good friends, and even finding a the woman of my dreams. There are many more I hope to become aquainted with as well. Whether butch or femme, I welcome all as friends and my lassie is encouraged to do the same and does. She has her own mind and the ability to know what is right for her, I have no need to monitor her friendships nor does she with me.

Thank you for putting out some good common sense that we can all use.

DITTO!!!!
Could not have said this better myself!

**lighthouselover** · 09-22-2005, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by femmegirrl

First..hi pam! ((((PAM)))) you are my best friend here too!

I do have to say that in a general sense, I get along better with butches than with femmes, I love femmes and enjoy their company, but I find that I can talk to butches without worrying about whats going to happen after that conversation. That does not mean that i don't trust any femmes, but I just feel that for me personally, it is easier for me to open up and trust butches. it has always been that way for me, and probably always will be...

great thread! I will be back soon to say more...

xoxo tonya

hmmmm, could this lead to Butch-Butch rivalry? lol.

Hey, Baby! I love you!!!

Hey there, Pam. Great thread!!!

femmegirrl · 09-22-2005, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by lighthouselover

hmmmm, could this lead to Butch-Butch rivalry? lol.

Hey, Baby! I love you!!!

Hey there, Pam. Great thread!!!

nah..you are too cocky for any rivalry..remeber?

I you too...

**lighthouselover** · 09-22-2005, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by femmegirrl

nah..you are too cocky for any rivalry..remeber?

I you too...

Oh, but wait!! I thought is was tooooo arrogant. lol!

**CalypsoTheNymph** · 09-22-2005, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by oregon_femme

There are femmes, right here in our community, who get along with and are sweet to EVERYBODY. People like FemN, Jenstar, Morningstar, Concrete Angel

You forgot me .....

I'm sweet ... I know cause my mama told me so .....

**hym** · 09-22-2005, 10:41 PM

View from a Butch..

Is there such a thing as femme rivalry? YUP

What about femme jealousy? YUP

Do you believe that some femmes have issues with ALL other femmes and therefore cannot bond or maintain femme friendships? YUP

**Syl e Girl** · 09-22-2005, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by femmegirrl

First..hi pam! ((((PAM)))) you are my best friend here too!

I do have to say that in a general sense, I get along better with butches than with femmes, I love femmes and enjoy their company, but I find that I can talk to butches without worrying about whats going to happen after that conversation. That does not mean that i don't trust any femmes, but I just feel that for me personally, it is easier for me to open up and trust butches. it has always been that way for me, and probably always will be...

great thread! I will be back soon to say more...

xoxo tonya

I have to agree with you here, although I think for me it is not by choice..I am often intimidated by femmes, and find it hard to initiate one on one contact...for me it is easier to approach a butch...they also seem to get my sense of humour...but yet I fear sometimes that this approach may be misunderstood as a come on...

....

I don't like confrontation....but I do long for a close femme friend

rivalry...it exists....and it's very very scawy...

**Dante** · 09-22-2005, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by CalypsoTheNymph

You forgot me .....

I'm sweet ... I know cause my mama told me so .....

Yes! who forgot Lily ??? She is so sweet! And so is Frankie!
Lily is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet !!!!!!!!!

femmegirrl · 09-22-2005, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Syl e Girl

I have to agree with you here, although I think for me it is not by choice..I am often intimidated by femmes, and find it hard to initiate one on one contact...for me it is easier to approach a butch...they also seem to get my sense of humour...but yet I fear sometimes that this approach may be misunderstood as a come on...

....

I don't like confrontation....but I do long for a close femme friend

rivalry...it exists....and it's very very scawy...

awwww..I will be our friend syl....

**oregon_femme** · 09-22-2005, 11:21 PM

NOW...HOW IN THE HELL DID I FORGET TO MENTION THE MOST SWEETEST, MOST ADORABLE, MOST LOVABLE, FANTASTIC FEMME ON THE SITE????

VOTED THE TOP ANGEL OF BUTCH-FEMME.COM.....

LILY! CALYPSO THE NYMPH

NEVER A BAD WORD TO SAY ABOUT ANYONE! ALWAYS SWEET. HEARS SHIT BOUT FOLKS, BUT CHOOSES NOT TO BELIEVE, OR JUDGE.
SHE IS THE PERFECT FEMME. AND IN MY DREAMS THE PERFECT SWITCH FOR ME....SIGH

SORRY TO FORGET TO MENTION YOU MISS SWEET THING!
I WILL BE MAD AT MYSELF ALL WEEK! AND I WONT LET MYSELF TOUCH MYSELF TONIGHT AS PUNSIHMENT! NO SEX TONIGHT FOR ME....DAMN...
THAT'LL TEACH ME NOT TO FORGET TO STATE THE OBVIOUS!

**Taino_n_Pasionaria** · 09-22-2005, 11:42 PM

I think anywhere there are humans there will be some rivalries. Right or wrong it's just the human condition for some. As in any community we gravitate toward people of like mind, and avoid those we don't care for. We can't take the "bad"( gossip etc) actions of others personally, or we let them hurt us

I sure do wish there were more femmes to be friends with around here.........LOL how far out in the boonies are we anyway..............help me

~P~

PS where in Oregon are you? EX Ashlander here

Very cool Gay community in those parts..........lots of sisterhood, I miss it.

**CalypsoTheNymph** · 09-23-2005, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by oregon_femme

NOW...HOW IN THE HELL DID I FORGET TO MENTION THE MOST SWEETEST, MOST ADORABLE, MOST LOVABLE, FANTASTIC FEMME ON THE SITE????

VOTED THE TOP ANGEL OF BUTCH-FEMME.COM.....

LILY! CALYPSO THE NYMPH

NEVER A BAD WORD TO SAY ABOUT ANYONE! ALWAYS SWEET. HEARS SHIT BOUT FOLKS, BUT CHOOSES NOT TO BELIEVE, OR JUDGE.
SHE IS THE PERFECT FEMME. AND IN MY DREAMS THE PERFECT SWITCH FOR ME....SIGH

SORRY TO FORGET TO MENTION YOU MISS SWEET THING!
I WILL BE MAD AT MYSELF ALL WEEK! AND I WONT LET MYSELF TOUCH MYSELF TONIGHT AS PUNSIHMENT! NO SEX TONIGHT FOR ME....DAMN...
THAT'LL TEACH ME NOT TO FORGET TO STATE THE OBVIOUS!

Thank you for remembering me ......

So please touch yourself when you go to bed and think about how sweet I can be .....

Bebarb · 09-23-2005, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by Sun

I have to admit that the topic of this thread made me laugh out loud. Perhaps if it were called "Discussion on Femme Rivalry" I would not have laughed so hard. No disrespect to anyone in here...least of all you Oregon Femme, I just have had a few tastes of femme rivalry and acknowledge that there is a very thick layer of insecurity that enters into the picture when anyone takes up a "rivalry". I see it as a major sign of immaturity and always appreciate femmes who steer clear of drama. For that matter a thread that discusses Butch rivalry would be useful as well though again, the immaturity that flames such rivalry bores me to death.

I recently was accused of pursuing someones partner when I was new to the site back in the spring. I was so taken aback by this information because I saw right through it and into the core issue. I was new here and looking for friends in this community who might live in my resgion. I PM'd a few people. No big deal. I was seeing someone, I was not "looking". As a matter of fact, I was really into the idea of new friendships evolving from the this site. I have a lot of friends who dont really "get" the Butch-femme dynamic in the same way that I do.

I never came across Butch's who freak when a single Butch sends a note to their partner until I came to this community. Secure Butch's and femmes dont seem to have this issue.

As a matter of fact, I now have friends on this site who would not think twice about my sending a PM or an email to their femme. So recently when I heard from a disgruntled butch, about how I came onto hys partner back in the spring by sending a Pm about getting together with locals, I was floored. The fact that the partner who seems like a very lovely person but is in no way "my type" would not have been someone that I would have pursued did not seem to enter into this Butch's realm. Now this is a couple that I reached out to over the summer and expressed how happy I was for them in celebration of their love.

Though I was offended...I could see through it, I saw the pitiful insecurity that generated that comment, I responded that the comment was out of line, and innacurate, and I tried to let it go. It still pisses me off that anyone would accuse me of trying to take their partner away from them. If a partnership is solid and healthy, Butch's should be able to be friends with femmes, femmes should be able to be friends with Butch's and everyone should be able to get along. Rivalry is born (imo) of intense insecurity and the sense that someone is going to "take something away from them (ownership) or that there is something better right around the corner.

I respect and admire the people that live happy and contented lives...those of you who treat one another with respect and dignity make this community and our world for that matter a much nicer place to be.

I will say this....there is a really amazing community of femmes in here and I have been blown away by the "quality" of people that I am meeting. Its unreal sometimes. I really love it here. I spent almost 9 years in a relationship, and I was totally spoiled on what a wonderful femme is and can be. My former partner is just the best..an amazing person whom I love tremendously and have an incredible friendship with. She is so special. Though we grew in different directions, our respect and honor never wavered. Friends are often amazed at how well we have navigated our seperation and friendship.

As a single person I really am loving the diversity in here and the chance to meet so many interesting people. For those who get involved in rivalry and drama...I would suggest finding a more worthwhile pursuit. Just my 2 cents worth.

Peace....

Well said Sun...

Your peaceful attitude shines through your writing... And...... I happen to agree with you on the subject. I couldn't vote yes and I couldn't vote no...So......I had to vote..."Who Cares" Even though I do care. People, including Femme's will do what they do. It does not mean I have to identify with the majority. I found that to be true early in life.

Excellent Post!

Bebarb

**FemNLeatherNLace** · 09-23-2005, 02:23 AM

Pam...

i have been looking at this topic ever since i first saw it. Finally got a chance to read it tonight. Then bam saw my name in your post and got weepy...what a sweet thing to say darlin... (((Pam)))...

oh i have SEEN it ..oh yea...in an abstract way i understand why it happens and that some of it is just as natural as it is among the animal kingdom..that unspoken fight up the hierarchy ladder... on an emotional and mental level i just don't get it past oh 7th grade or so...

i have come to cherish my femme sisters more and more every day...finding in them my strength, humor, determination, courage, affection, and so many other things. i have seen the power of the love in the unity between them and how much we need each other...let's face it girls Butches come and Butches go but our sisters are our sisters forever. i have seen femmes go to great sacrafice to avoid hurting their femme sisters and be the first ones there when they are hurt or in trouble...that is something not only to be cherished but spread among our community of femmes--our sisterhood..

Sadly, i have also seen femmes manipulatively sabotage, slander and hurt one another sometimes with a sweet smile and hug...all the while holding the proverbial knife to their back...i believe the largest majority of the catiness/rivalry surrounds the "hunt for the Butch" so to speak... but i have to say...for my own self dignity..for my own self appreciation and preservation..i will be damned if i will trample over and fight a sister for a Butch...

There is so much to be gained through a sisterhood...unconditional love, support, laughter, good times, strength, and it goes on and on...why not promote it .. nurture it...benefit from it..

Sure there are bad apples both butch femme straight gay lesbian you name it...and there are going to be conflicts ...thing is..for the most part ..it can be dealt with...without losing our dignity..or dividing nations for godsakes...

egh..i'm tired and rambling..but a very timely thread honey...glad to see it...and i for one would like to ... think back to the emotional tears of joy i cried at the honor of holding hands with my sisters in Baltimore and joining with the beautiful an amazing gathering of femmes to sing ...

"We Are Family"

because truly .....we are...

**FemNLeatherNLace** · 09-23-2005, 03:43 AM

ummm prior post

"let's face it girls Butches come and Butches go ..."

in NO way .... was meant to negate my sincere an deep appreciation for my many cherished Butch friends .. i was referring generically to romantic involvements...

ugh...sorry...

FemN<---who should not try to function semantically when tired

**Syl e Girl** · 09-23-2005, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by femmegirrl

awwww..I will be our friend syl....

Thanks femmegirrl...that is sweet...wooohoooo

*Syl goes running home...mommy...daddy...I got a fwendddddd*...

I was reading what oregon_femme wrote...and I like the word.."catty"...I sometimes worry that my sense of humour may be taken the wrong way...especially when on the net...since we rely on smilly faces to help get our tone across...I do fear someone will think I am being catty, when in reality I would never do that...although I do seem to get defensive when confronted...

...but I have not encountered a lot of this in the butch-femme internet world...I have seen a lot of it in the straight world..enough to send me running out of a few chat sites...

But I love femme's...I actually was in a femme - femme relationship for a while...it was not love...but it was fun to go out and have fun as the girls...she was an aggressive femme...it really drove home what role other femmes had to take in my life though...and that I didn't have to date a femme just because I got along with her...(damn I was messed up for years...)....lmao

I must say....my curiosity is up in regards to Calypso....lol....wild stuff..

**Sun** · 09-23-2005, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Kelt

Hey Sun,

You really hit the nail on the head with this one. I could not have stated these points any better. Quality people with quality values and a sense of security within themselves and thier own relationships should have no problems with the ideas you put forth.

I have had the good fortune to meet many fine individuals on this site, making several good friends, and even finding a the woman of my dreams. There are many more I hope to become aquainted with as well. Whether butch or femme, I welcome all as friends and my lassie is encouraged to do the same and does. She has her own mind and the ability to know what is right for her, I have no need to monitor her friendships nor does she with me.

Thank you for putting out some good common sense that we can all use.

Kelt,

You are very welcome and thank you D2L, Oregon Femme, lighthouselover, Bebarb, for your comments.

Kelt I like what you write here..that your lady has her own mind and you have no need to monitor each other. That is what I am accustomed to in love relationships and in friendships. As a matter of fact, I lived in a great lgbt community, Provincetown, MA for some years and we had a real small town vibe. Cool, cooperative, peaceful. The femmes got along very well with each other and the butch's. Then again when you are in paradise the world seems more peaceful and people become more grateful for their good fortune to live in such a magnificent place.

The bottom line for me is that we need one another. We all need meaningful friendships and the chance to just be ourselves and be appreciated and even sometimes loved for who we are.

I smiled to see so many sweet femmes dropping in and giving an opinion. Awwe...I dont know all of you..but some of you just shine. Lily, no one could ever really overlook you sweetie...you just glow with your happines. Oregon Femme ...you are such a bright light always and always have a kind word to say. Same with you D2L and Bebarb..bright lights in our community.

FemN...you are my friend and I adore you. I am a witness to how important femme on femme friendship is. I recall how excited you were FemN prior to the bash. When I saw so many photos coming back that were just sweet, loving femmes hugging and kissing each other and having fun, it really made me happy. The femmes that I talked to after the bash basically conveyed a similar sentiment: that they craved and needed their femme friends.

Yes relationships come and go, but even so, we should all be able to be friends with no insecurity about what our intentions are. We all need friendships and for that matter the femmes and butch;s that are insecure and need drama will hopefully benefit from a few good role models. After all...look at what they are missing out on!

Lighthouselover...I just have to tell you that I love lighthouses too and have some photos of lighthouses on Cape Cod that I should post sometime.

Have a great day everyone!

**NYCFemme** · 09-23-2005, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by oregon_femme

I have noticed that so far NO ONE has voted "No" on the Poll.

Interesting......

Well... I believe that it is impossible to vote no as all human groups have rivalry and jeolousy and people who can't form friendships. So... to vote no is to say that Femmes are somehow superior to all other groups. I actually would have found it odd if people voted no. The question didn't say "All Femmes" - at which point most would have said no.

The thing I find interesting is how adamantly the Butches - with their all caps - have answered the question compared to the more gentle way the Femmes have. Wondering what that is about. lol.

I used to find women my rivals (when I was young and in the straight world) because that is what all the magazines and soaps had told me in their subconscious way and I had no other real experiences having grown up with terrible role models. Then a very important person told me to seek out and find women friends - because only women can teach you how to be a woman. And we don't come into this world "knowing" how to form friendships and be good friends - we learn it. And I started looking at women as friends and not as rivals and it made all the difference. It wasn't that they were ever all rivals - it was that I thought they were - so I only found the ones that were. Kind of how drunks all find each other and then think everyone drinks the way they do.

Yes... I do get jeolous at times... but that is my human thing, not my Femme thing. It is what I do with the jeolousy that is important - not whether I feel it or not.

So now I assume Femmes will be my friend until proven otherwise - instead of the other way around. And I do get sad at times at how hard it has been for me to become friends with Femmes. But being a shy extravert confuses people - and that is what I am.

And I think it is easier at times to be friends with Butches - because we don't have to even think about jeolousy and rivalry... they have to deal with that with each other and not with us. I mean seriously... why would a Butch (into B/F relationships) get catty with me. I have seen them catty with each other over a Femme - but never with me. Just my experience, but interesting to think about... Nice thread.

**The_Lady_Snow** · 09-23-2005, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by FemNLeatherNLace

Pam...

i have been looking at this topic ever since i first saw it. Finally got a chance to read it tonight. Then bam saw my name in your post and got weepy...what a sweet thing to say darlin... (((Pam)))...

oh i have SEEN it ..oh yea...in an abstract way i understand why it happens and that some of it is just as natural as it is among the animal kingdom..that unspoken fight up the hierarchy ladder... on an emotional and mental level i just don't get it past oh 7th grade or so...

i have come to cherish my femme sisters more and more every day...finding in them my strength, humor, determination, courage, affection, and so many other things. i have seen the power of the love in the unity between them and how much we need each other...let's face it girls Butches come and Butches go but our sisters are our sisters forever. i have seen femmes go to great sacrafice to avoid hurting their femme sisters and be the first ones there when they are hurt or in trouble...that is something not only to be cherished but spread among our community of femmes--our sisterhood..

Sadly, i have also seen femmes manipulatively sabotage, slander and hurt one another sometimes with a sweet smile and hug...all the while holding the proverbial knife to their back...i believe the largest majority of the catiness/rivalry surrounds the "hunt for the Butch" so to speak... but i have to say...for my own self dignity..for my own self appreciation and preservation..i will be damned if i will trample over and fight a sister for a Butch...

There is so much to be gained through a sisterhood...unconditional love, support, laughter, good times, strength, and it goes on and on...why not promote it .. nurture it...benefit from it..

Sure there are bad apples both butch femme straight gay lesbian you name it...and there are going to be conflicts ...thing is..for the most part ..it can be dealt with...without losing our dignity..or dividing nations for godsakes...

egh..i'm tired and rambling..but a very timely thread honey...glad to see it...and i for one would like to ... think back to the emotional tears of joy i cried at the honor of holding hands with my sisters in Baltimore and joining with the beautiful an amazing gathering of femmes to sing ...

"We Are Family"

because truly .....we are...

How nice it would be if all viewed things in this fashioin, then alot would not feel so betrayed by the *femme cyber and real time sisters* Unconditional love is rare to find in a forum like this....

**Martina** · 09-23-2005, 08:52 AM

Great post, NYCFemme!

I love, love, love femmes. Can I be jealous? Yes.

Rivalry? It would have to be a very specific situation. When I see a gorgeous femme, do I think of her as competition? No. I think, "OMG, there goes the MOST gorgous femme!" And I am so proud she is my sister.