Why do femmes want what they want?

[nutella]

I think a good butch quality is rarely appreciated by femmes. When was the last time you hear a femme saying "I want a butch who takes it like a man?" Or how about, "I want a butch who can create the most wonderful gadgets." Never. Femmes always want non-butch qualities like "being romantic" or "treat femme like princess". No wonder phony butches gets to break hearts and good ones are quietly spending time alone in the shop. I mean, honestly, who wants to "romance a femme" when he could spend the time and energy creating interesting things? Honestly. Wanting a butch without ever wanting any butch qualities doesn't make much sense to me. You wouldn't judge a hammer by its color and expect good quality, would you? Why then, would you pick a butch using feminine standards?

Just wondering. Not that there's anything wrong with femme's way of seeing butches, but I'm just saying it's rather strange. After the millionth time being told that a desirable butch should be like a day-time-TV male star, I must ask.

Perhaps we butches should all model after Fabio. That would keep femmes happy. But then we would be miserable.

[*JUICY*INANNA*]

Personally I don't think that you should classify every butch and every femme together. Don't bring all of them down with you. How was your day? Was it bad do you want to talk about it? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or patronizing. It just offends me that you see all femmes as shallow and bratty.

[slightlyspikeygirl]

I *shouldn't* choose a hammer by its colour??? Who knew?

Seriously, nutella, your post made me laugh, but I do agree - you're grumpy today... and meeting the wrong femmes. I LOVE butch qualities; a little romance wouldn't go amiss, though.

Now, tell me about your interesting gadgets....

[Bonnie314]

Funny, I chose my hammer because of its floral design. I went for the blue flowers. The pink seemed a bit garish. Okay, it isn't perfectly balanced (in part because it has a screw off handle with various screw drivers inside), but I'm happy when I'm hammering.

Oh and Fabio... golly yes. That's just what I'm longing for.

[Apocalipstic]

Wow, yeah, dont lump us all together!

I have dated several butches in my life, and they all have wished I were more romantic.

Each person has hid or her own dreams, desires, habits, traits....its not just black and white....buch traits and femme traits.

Good luck finding a girl you like better than the one who is bugging you to be romantic....

laugh!!!!!

[msdemeanor]

I mean, honestly, who wants to "romance a femme" when he could spend the time and energy creating interesting things?

Too darn funny! Yer cracking me up Nutella!!!!

[SnugglyGirl007]

I think a good butch quality is rarely appreciated by femmes. When was the last time you hear a femme saying "I want a butch who takes it like a man?" Or how about, "I want a butch who can create the most wonderful gadgets." Never. Femmes always want non-butch qualities like "being romantic" or "treat femme like princess". No wonder phony butches gets to break hearts and good ones are quietly spending time alone in the shop. I mean, honestly, who wants to "romance a femme" when he could spend the time and energy creating interesting things? Honestly. Wanting a butch without ever wanting any butch qualities doesn't make much sense to me. You wouldn't judge a hammer by its color and expect good quality, would you? Why then, would you pick a butch using feminine standards?

Just wondering. Not that there's anything wrong with femme's way of seeing butches, but I'm just saying it's rather strange. After the millionth time being told that a desirable butch should be like a day-time-TV male star, I must ask.

Perhaps we butches should all model after Fabio. That would keep femmes happy. But then we would be miserable.

Um, Fabio? Gross!

I 'pick' my butch by my standards. For me, I want the entire package. My Maestro DOES hear me tell her to take it like a butch (I am sure you can guess when) among other things. I like all butch qualities, the feminine and masculine ones. Different butches have different levels of each depending on the person. Some butches have scarce feminine qualities. To each their own.

Your statement of "I mean, honestly, who wants to "romance a femme" when he could spend the time and energy creating interesting things?" sounds kind of selfish to me. Any relationship worth having is worth putting some effort into.

I am femme and I can create many wonderful gadgets, even while I am bending over....does that make me undesirable to a butch? Not to mine.

[slightlyspikeygirl]

I am femme and I can create many wonderful gadgets....does that make me undesirable to a butch? Not to mine.

OK, Snuggly, tell me about your interesting gadgets? Someone tell me about their interesting gadgets? I feel gadget-teased!

Actually, I'm a femme who's been told she's not romantic enough. I'd far rather have conversation & sex & adventure than chocolate & flowers.

I've never made a gadget, though. Sigh.

[SnugglyGirl007]

OK, Snuggly, tell me about your interesting gadgets? Someone tell me about their interesting gadgets? I feel gadget-teased!

Actually, I'm a femme who's been told she's not romantic enough. I'd far rather have conversation & sex & adventure than chocolate & flowers.

I've never made a gadget, though. Sigh.

Oh how I also love conversation, adventure and sex - add some chocolate and flowers to all of that at the same time and I bet you will come up with some sort of gadget baby!

[slightlyspikeygirl]

Hmm.. Put a flower .... there. Melt some chocolate onto it. Put some chocolate.... here. Stick a flower in it. Scatter some flowers around.... there. Chocolate shavings!

*Stands back. Looks at what I've made*

It's pretty! But it's not a gadget. AAAARGH!! - frustration. Someone pass me that hammer!

[SnugglyGirl007]

Hmm.. Put a flower .... there. Melt some chocolate onto it. Put some chocolate.... here. Stick a flower in it. Scatter some flowers around.... there. Chocolate shavings!

*Stands back. Looks at what I've made*

It's pretty! But it's not a gadget. AAAARGH!! - frustration. Someone pass me that hammer!

Oh honey, you forgot the adventure part! The possibilities are endless!!

I don't have a hammer handy, but I have a pair of dikes - my personal favorite!

[slightlyspikeygirl]

I forgot the sex part as well. Hoookay, pass me those dikes; I've got masking tape here & some picture-hanging gizmos... oh, and quite a lot of string. And a little motor off a toy car, but I don't quite know what to do with that yet.

[SnugglyGirl007]

I forgot the sex part as well. Hoookay, pass me those dikes; I've got masking tape here & some picture-hanging gizmos... oh, and quite a lot of string. And a little motor off a toy car, but I don't quite know what to do with that yet.

Now you're workin' it girl!

[UrBelovedFemme]

*offering up course outline to Spikey for Gadget Making for Girls 101*

Classes start Monday

[slightlyspikeygirl]

*offering up course outline to Spikey for Gadget Making for Girls 101*

Goody! Do they involve vodka?

[UrBelovedFemme]

Goody! Do they involve vodka?

*nods imperceptibly*

mmmhhmmm

I bet, with a lil vodka, we could make a gadget out of the things you listed.

[*Brown Eyed Butch*]

This thread is great... Anyway, I'm butch and I make lil gadgets all the time. Like I'm learning to sew. *~I know how (Becky Home-ecy) of me...~* but I make my girl cute lil' pillows and stuff, but I still change the oil in the car... So does that make me femme?

[inkedup]

I'll vote "no" on that one Brown lol...I know several butches that sew...doesn't make 'em any more femme...just more resourceful and marketable should you ever need that LOL

[slightlyspikeygirl]

Ok, I'll make the gadgets - you sew covers for them!

I did, ahem, textile history at uni (many many years ago) & there was a fabulous collection of sailors' embroidery, lace-making & knitting - now of course they *had* to be able to sew in order to look after the sails, but they obviously didn't have an image problem about it.

Unless this was a particularly poofy lot of sailors of course.

*leaving the thread in order to fantasise....*

[JstAButch]

I have to say your post was quite funny to read and made you sound a little selfish but oh well.

I'm an old fashioned butch. I treat my gal with respect and I do romance her.. I also know how to tear car engines apart and rebuild them. Does romancing her make me less butch.... Obviously not. I know how to cook and clean does that make me less butch. No it doesn't.

Every butch is unique just like every femme is unique. It's the whole package(good or bad) that makes us who we are.

[Kira]

m'kay Yeah, the original post does kind of make me wonder what bug crawled up their ass and took up residence. lol My ftm bear butch is a romantic at heart. He does not have to work at being romantic. It comes naturally and he expresses it freely. If anything, he is probably more expressively romantic than I am.

Any way, peace to you and I hope you find the right girl for you.

[OBB Orginal BadBoi]

Why would many femmes want a butch who's more wrapped up in thier own toolbox then to take the time to be romantic???

& who said being butch means not being romantic???

I don't think there is anything phony about a butch going out of hir way to do something specail for the femme s/he cares for--& that is what being romantic is about.

So I suggest that if you want 2 impress a femme with your tools & gagets build her something she will dig/use/like. Instead of bitchin--which isn't susposed 2 be a big butch trait, but obviously many of us macho butches resort 2.

As 4 Male daytime TV stars....Why blame those femmes who want that in a butch-I mean those guys have it all & there are many butches out there that can give a femme alittle romance with any complains in doing so.

[joey1]

I am still gagging over nutella's Fabio comment. Is it just me or does there seem to be some underlying issues/bitterness behind the focus of this thread?

Saying things like "always" or "never" is a inaccurate genaralization of women/femmes. All the women I have ever dated have wanted their butch to be a combination of all the things you described, nutella.

I understand the frustration in being expected to be so many things..

Life would be easier if I could just be the way I think I want to be which is very stereotypical male. I don't always want to talk about every little thing, I don't want to share my feelings, I would rather be in the garage than going out all the time and being "social".

But, for me, If I didn't leave my comfort zone I would never have the relationship that I have with my partner. We are learning what is important to each other and we both give and take. I have never been so close to a woman and I will happily continue to take risks and leave my comfort zone to continue to share in this wonderfully intimate relationship.

~just my .99 cents

~Joe

[blush]

I think a good butch quality is rarely appreciated by femmes. When was the last time you hear a femme saying "I want a butch who takes it like a man?" Or how about, "I want a butch who can create the most wonderful gadgets." Never. Femmes always want non-butch qualities like "being romantic" or "treat femme like princess". No wonder phony butches gets to break hearts and good ones are quietly spending time alone in the shop. I mean, honestly, who wants to "romance a femme" when he could spend the time and energy creating interesting things? Honestly. Wanting a butch without ever wanting any butch qualities doesn't make much sense to me. You wouldn't judge a hammer by its color and expect good quality, would you? Why then, would you pick a butch using feminine standards?

Just wondering. Not that there's anything wrong with femme's way of seeing butches, but I'm just saying it's rather strange. After the millionth time being told that a desirable butch should be like a day-time-TV male star, I must ask.

Perhaps we butches should all model after Fabio. That would keep femmes happy. But then we would be miserable.

You've got to be kidding.

[Butchie]

I find the original post to be quite bizarre - and I am finding the femme exchange very interesting - I'd like to be a fly on the wall in the femme gadget making 101. Maybe y'all could teach me something.

Not that I don't have gadgets of my own - my gadgets are extremely femme friendly and intriguingly romantic - that's how I enticed Skittles!

Butchie

[Rainbow Skittles]

Not that I don't have gadgets of my own - my gadgets are extremely femme friendly and intriguingly romantic - that's how I enticed Skittles!

Butchie

mmmmmm baby - and ya know I love them "gadgets"....

can I play with your "gadgets" this weekend darlin?

[Butchie]

mmmmmm baby - and ya know I love them "gadgets"....

can I play with your "gadgets" this weekend darlin?

I'll be home tomorrow night - you'll get to experience my gadgets first hand - so to speak will you share the secrets of femme gadget making 101?

[1PlayfulFemme]

As a femme who can appreciate any trait in my butch (and make any gadget I darned well want to...especially if it comes with instructions ) I have to say, perhaps you are meeting the wrong femmes??? I can't imagine being with a butch tho, who thought it was asking too much that they occasionally thought of me, knew how to be romantic, or treated me like a princess. I mean, what femme has never known a butch who wanted to be a knight in shining armor?? Do we fuss about it? Or do we feed it, nurture it, allow it to grow?
I agree with Snuggly, any relationship worth having is worth working for. Every relationship needs a little care and tenderness to become what it is supposed to. Perhaps that is the femme in me *lil shrug*.
All I know, is I could NEVER be with a butch who couldn't find the time out of their garage and spend some of it with me...I do tend to encourage my butch to be butchly...I mean, that is what drew me to them in the beginning..and I fail to see how being soft, kind, and thoughtful makes one less butch.

[andreababy7070]

I'm sure all of us femmes could admit to a butch quality or two (but only if tortured slowly with homemade gadgets). Personally, I've installed the entire sound system in my car...Tuner, Woofer, Amp, Mids, even a signal booster, but don't tell anyone, SSSHHHH..... My point is that we know we can do these things, and we're probably damn sexy doing them. I don't LOOK for my butch to break out the visa and propose a day for two at the spa, but I don't look down on them when they let a glimmer of female shine through the cracks either.

By the way, all you need for an interesting gadget is a feather, some string, a three foot wooden dowel and some honey...duh! I thought everyone knew that. And don't forget the ice cubes to cool off the you-know-what

[katiegrrrl]

I think a good butch quality is rarely appreciated by femmes. When was the last time you hear a femme saying "I want a butch who takes it like a man?" Or how about, "I want a butch who can create the most wonderful gadgets." Never. Femmes always want non-butch qualities like "being romantic" or "treat femme like princess". No wonder phony butches gets to break hearts and good ones are quietly spending time alone in the shop. I mean, honestly, who wants to "romance a femme" when he could spend the time and energy creating interesting things? Honestly. Wanting a butch without ever wanting any butch qualities doesn't make much sense to me. You wouldn't judge a hammer by its color and expect good quality, would you? Why then, would you pick a butch using feminine standards?

Just wondering. Not that there's anything wrong with femme's way of seeing butches, but I'm just saying it's rather strange. After the millionth time being told that a desirable butch should be like a day-time-TV male star, I must ask.

Perhaps we butches should all model after Fabio. That would keep femmes happy. But then we would be miserable.

Fabio
Ewwwwwww
Don't know what was going on when you wrote this Nutella. Sounds like someone has not been appreciating you. One of the things I appreciate most about butches (besides hopefully the great sex) are those Mcgyverish qualities.
Katiegrrrl

[Addiction]

Wow... I don't even know what to say to the initial post. Well I do but I'm way to tired to write that much.

[Bigfish1967]

Perhaps we butches should all model after Fabio. That would keep femmes happy. But then we would be miserable.

Lmao...The femmes I am aquainted with would be repulsed by the whole "Fabio" persona. *shudders*


~Bigfish

[oregon_femme]

As for me....

I want a Butch who is....

A Butch!!




.

[DarkFlaAngel1984]

Femmes always want non-butch qualities like "being romantic" or "treat femme like princess". .

Okay, so ur saying that all femme's and butches are the same??? Nooo they arnt and not all femme's want a butch who is romantic, and yes some do.. But also some butches like being romantic and some dont.. Everyone is different,
There are no two butches that are excatly alike,or two femme's excatly alike, or even two stright men or two stright women.....
And,ur making it sound like if someone is romantic then their not a real butch?? That is so wrong,my ex, was a butch, and she was romantic, she actully said i wasnt "romatic enough" and with her i admit i wasnt into all that, which now i know cuz i wasnt in love i guess... But my gf now, she is also butch, and she is romantic also...So yes, some butches like to be romantic,Actully most of them i have talked to are very romantic and sweet people...Now, i know alot of butches dont like to "talk" about feelings and all but some do,some dont.. Like i said no two butches are excatly alike..
Also, I dont expect my butch to treat me like a princess...
So dont go judging all femme's cause we are not all alike, either are all the butches....
But, yes i do expect my butch to treat me good, every one deserves someone who will treat them good... My gf treats me good, but i also treat her good.. I do as much for the person im with as they do for me....

[Bekko]

what's wrong with someone who wants romance?? Doesn't everyone? Isn't that part of the dance between and butch and a femme? Romance shows interest. If a femme doesn't want me to romance her then she's not the femme for me....that's just what I do, it can be big or little things....that doesn't make you less of a butch, that's just LOVE.

[Rhoda]

what's wrong with someone who wants romance?? Doesn't everyone? Isn't that part of the dance between and butch and a femme? Romance shows interest. If a femme doesn't want me to romance her then she's not the femme for me....that's just what I do, it can be big or little things....that doesn't make you less of a butch, that's just LOVE.

So, where have you been all my life??? I was told, "I'm NOT gonna romance you." Like it was distasteful or something, who says that kind of crap?? A femmeless butch, that's who. When I romance a butch, I cook for you, serve you meals on a table with real silverware, scratch your back, kiss you where you least expect it, make your favorite desserts, nice to your Mom and family, fuss over you, fluff and fold ya, make things for you, love on your pets, fix the zipper on your fav jeans, sew buttons back on, I do all kinds of stuff to show you I care about you, and am interested in being your woman. But ya can't give me fresh flowers? Take me to fabric store? make me a card? brush my hair? Paint my toe nails? Say Thank You??? Open doors for me??? I don't ask for the world OR your credit cards.... I like to know you give a sh*t.

Holey crap.

[Firecat719]

Nutella, are you seriously suggesting that being a loving and caring person is somehow being anti-butch? Again, I'm forced to going back to using str8 world analogies. What you are saying is reminiscent to saying that any man who truly loves and cares for his wife and family is somehow less than a man or no man at all?

Where is it written that for a lesbian to be a butch, she must be a neanderthal? "Ugh. Me carry big stick. Me hunt, fish, kill with rock. With fire, me cook meat!" Please, spare me!

One of my favorite lines from any movie is from Audrey Hepburn, who said, "There is nothing more powerful, than a gentle man." If men are allowed to be, and preferred to be this way - while still free to maintain their masculinity - how is it possible that a butch lesbian cannot or should not be afforded the same consideration for themselves?

It is a very sad thing, indeed, that a butch can believe: if she shows any trait, which could be considered feminine, somehow she loses some of her butch status. This is nonsense thinking... and a HUGE reason why butch-femme relations don't often last very much past the honeymoon stage of the relationship. To any one who has every been considered a butch, whether you realize it or not, you are still a woman and entitled to feel as such, from time to time. It, in no way, suggests that you now need to re-classify your lesbian status or to turn in your lesbian card for one that is decidedly more pink in coloration.

Just like a man is a man, simply because he just is; so too is a butch a butch, simply because she just is. Just like a str8 woman can look at a man an realize, "he's a self-centered womanizing prick," then instantly decide, "I want nothing to do with someone like that!"; the same holds true for the butch-femme dynamic. On the opposite side of the spectrum, if a str8 woman sees a man and instantly thinks, "he's an effeminate, wishy-washy, mama's boy,"she immediately decides, "I need someone with a spine!"

It is the places between these two extremes that we femmes desire. Therefore, too much masculine bulls*** is a severe turn-off. Not enough, and you may as well be wearing a dress! But, as a woman, butch or not, you must have some feminine qualities. If you didn't, why the hell would I or any other femme simply not say, "I may as well be with a man! and If I'd wanted to be with a man, I'd date one!"

And to answer your question of, "why romance a femme, as opposed to spending time creating interesting things?" Well, one obvious answer would be, if I was the femme in question, "I wonder if one of those interesting things you could create would be a convertible version of your work bench. By day, it's a workplace and a handy place for your tools. By night, it transforms into a bed. Because there is no way you are going to share my bed that, or any other night!

[Rhoda]

I have 'gadgets'..... rofl