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Thread: Lipstick Lesbian Versus Femme: Is there a difference?

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    Question Lipstick Lesbian Versus Femme: Is there a difference?

    I was just wondering if a Lipstick Lesbian and a Femme were synonymous terms or if there is a difference in these two terms? Any input? lol
    Sugar and Spice

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    Basic Member BigSkyMidnight's Avatar
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    Good question.

    I've never thought of the two as being equivalent, but I know some people do. Maybe I would if I'd learned "lipstick lesbian" from another source. I first heard "lipstick lesbian" as a term used by straight people to describe those shocking (!) lesbians who didn't "look like lesbians" (the stereotypical short hair, flannel shirt, and work boots). There are lots of reasons why I don't call myself a lipstick lesbian.

    1. In my mind, it's a term straight people made up to define femme lesbians.

    2. It brings up that old, tired stereotype about what lesbians are supposed to look like.

    3. I've most often heard it used to refer to a femme-looking woman who is not only into femme-looking women, but sort of disdains any deviation from traditional gender roles (at least when it comes to appearance).

    I am NOT trying to define "lipstick lesbian". I'm sure there are women out there who identify as lipstick lesbians and are none of the things I think of when I hear the term. Just sharing my perceptions, which are of course solely the responsibility of the author. :-)

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    Honored Member elemental's Avatar
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    to me...a femme is a woman who is very aware of her feminine gender presentation (for various reasons) while a lipstick lesbian is a lesbian who happens to be feminine and doesn't put a whole lot of thought into the matter beyond her appearance.

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    Basic Member L.A. Femme's Avatar
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    good question Princess... I have to think about this for a while.... i know there is a difference... at least in my perception..., but everyone's perception is going to be different based upon how they define themselves...
    Hmmmm.... we sure do get hung up on all the labels...don't we?
    okay... let's shop.


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    Smile heehee

    Labels Labels Labels...I get sooo confused...I even once wondered if I might be butch...but I don't like 'their' clothes (on me)...now back to business: ~~~grabbing LAFemme by the arm and heading towards the lingerie department...
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    I dont think anyone/many women actively ID as lipstick lesbian as opposed to actively IDing as femme/queer/butch/dyke/lesbian etc etc
    Indeed Id say lipstick lesbian is a label we use to attach TO someone but not one that anyone particularly chooses (from the array there are) for themelves. Thus I think it does differ but by the way it is used as opposed to what it necessarily describes. You may call yourself a femme, others may call you a lipstick lesbian. In reality it matters little in the grand scheme of things

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    Basic Member artemis1044's Avatar
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    In the queer community there are many different sub communities.

    I myself am an ultra high femme. I do not consider myself a lipstick lesbian. If you read around the butch-femme threads many of the femmes and TG butches do not consider themselves lesbians.

    I always thought a lipstick lesbians was one of the trendy girls who wanted to experiment with something new... Kind of like the latest shoes... I myself do not date other femmes. Where it is my understanding a lipstick lesbian would date another lipstick lesbian. I think others have explained it better. But this is just my view on it.

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    Lipstick does NOT a femme make!

    I agree with elemental. I'd also add that femmes own their sexuality and thier sexual power.

    There are a milliion "lipstick lesbians" in LA, and rarely a femme in sight. It's sad really. All these beautiful women and me with a limp dick.

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    Basic Member SweetBlueDiva43's Avatar
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    i'm certainly a femme

    there is so much out there now a days.....all this personal stuff about what is what....

    it's about alot of things....

    being feminine
    reveling in your power as a feminine womyn
    loving the mysterious essence of butch yang....
    definitely being yin

    i guess the list could go on....

    but i feel like lipstick lesbians are politically out there and very active....i think it infers a political activism.....that is what i have always thought....but i could be wrong.....who knows???

    just be yourself....dear.

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    Basic Member KwanYin's Avatar
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    Originally posted by JetBoy
    Lipstick does NOT a femme make!

    I agree with elemental. I'd also add that femmes own their sexuality and thier sexual power.

    There are a milliion "lipstick lesbians" in LA, and rarely a femme in sight. It's sad really. All these beautiful women and me with a limp dick.

    ~ Jet
    *loving this*



    good to hear from the butch perspective!!
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    Jet

    and of course in LA, as well as nyc we have the even more confusing "lipstick butch."

    Talk about a limp dick.

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    I hate lipstick.

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    Question I wonder...

    Maybe this is way off but I always thought that the term "lipstick lesbian" refered to femmes who like other femmes.

    I like lipstick but personally dislike the term. I know "lipstick lesbian" so does not encompass who I am.
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    Re: Jet

    Originally posted by audacious1
    and of course in LA, as well as nyc we have the even more confusing "lipstick butch."

    Talk about a limp dick.

    LOL OMG
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    hmmm tired...

    Ok... let me preface this with the fact that I should be asleep right now, so sorry if I ramble :-)
    No matter how femme I get I don't think I would identify as a lipstick lesbian. When I think of that term I picture straight sorority girls for some reason (nothing against straight sorority girls mind you).
    Besides ... if one is just talking about pure words... I am much more in favor of lip gloss (especially the kind that comes in the lil plastic tubes with the wand) or lip crayons ... anything but lipstick. If it is flavored or smells nice, that is a perk.
    Ok... I'm going to read this in the morning and wish a few more of my brain cells were working together rather than fighting... but I'm ok with that :-).

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    shewww all of these labels get me sooo confused!!! Maybe y'all can teach me???!!!

    I was wondering (sorry if I take this off the main thread a bit) if femmes are just as confused by our labels as us butches are about all the femmes' labels? I am a transgendered butch who is attracted to femmes (feminine women/goddesses). To me, this is pretty simple.

    Or am I the only butch who is confused???

    Thanks.... and Happy Holidays!!!!!!

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    In my experience, a lip-stick lesbian is a regular dyke who is "staight-looking", and again, in my experience, enjoys passing as straight. The word also carries the connatation of being attracted to other women who also pass as straight.

    A femme is a woman who may or may not wear lipstick, may or may not pass as straight (and may or may not care about passing) but who typically likes butches.

    Cruel

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    Originally posted by Cruel Joke
    In my experience, a lip-stick lesbian is a regular dyke who is "staight-looking", and again, in my experience, enjoys passing as straight. The word also carries the connatation of being attracted to other women who also pass as straight.

    A femme is a woman who may or may not wear lipstick, may or may not pass as straight (and may or may not care about passing) but who typically likes butches.

    Cruel
    A statement deserving of repeating!

    *clapping* I agree with Cruel 100%. So not a lipstick lesbian. And the term does tend to carry the idea of being closeted. So not closeted.

    Sharkchomp - I am very confused by butch labels at times...especially when it gets into the transgendered aspect. There are so many people who fall into the "other" category. This of course makes my heart smile. I dont mind taking the time to figure out the label.

    selena
    Last edited by selena2003; 12-24-2003 at 06:27 AM.
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    I suppose, if one is using "femme" as gender, then one refers to gender, another to sexual orientation (and, more descriptively, how that 'looks'). But mostly, yeah, I agree with what's been said already.
    Nan -- Mrs. Wilson sounds so formal.

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    Thumbs down oh yeah

    Originally posted by audacious1
    and of course in LA, as well as nyc we have the even more confusing "lipstick butch."

    Talk about a limp dick.
    though in Chicago we call that the *suburban lesbian*


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    Ok here's my question....

    I am probably what most would term "lipstick"-nails done, makeup (usually) fuck-me shoes occassionally....but I am attracted to both femme and butch women, depending on the personality, sexual vibe etc.

    I don't particularly feel confused about what I am attracted to...but is this unusual? Is there a special little term for me?

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    Originally posted by PieEyed
    Ok here's my question....

    I am probably what most would term "lipstick"-nails done, makeup (usually) fuck-me shoes occassionally....but I am attracted to both femme and butch women, depending on the personality, sexual vibe etc.

    I don't particularly feel confused about what I am attracted to...but is this unusual? Is there a special little term for me?
    Pie, question. Are you attracted to women who are more femme than you ever? just curious...

    I'm attracted to butch women and ftms....and andros...and dykes who id as none of the above...and my girlfriend id's as bisexual with none of those other ids... er...so i guess... i guess i'd just have to say that i am predominantly attracted to women that are less femme than me all the way across to ftm...yeah....that side of the spectrum...
    burgandy

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    My thoughts

    I always understood that a lipstick lesbian was another term for stone femme. Met a lot of women who identified as lipstick lesbians who refused to go out in public without lipstick and looking all girly. It had nothing to do with their sexuality but more
    with their physical appearance.

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    Lipstick...

    ...refused to go out in public without lipstick and looking all girly...
    *LOL* Butchlei, I have to agree... I never go out in public without makeup and heels! I don't really use the term "lipstick lesbian" but I am very into lipstick, and undoubtedly a dyke, so it doesn't surprise me when someone uses the term to describe me!

    I prefer to use the term "Femme" because I automatically think of it being paired with "Butch"... although not all people who self-identify as Femme are into Butches. I think it's part of the Old School thing for me...
    Objectify me, baby! .

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    so shark chomp.....

    can you tell me what trasgendered is???...is there a thread that talks about it????.....i'd like to know.....


    sorry ....trying not to derail thread.....

    carry on

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    SweetBlueDiva43

    Transgendered means a bio woman who feels like a man inside. This also applies to bio men who feel like a woman inside. There are several threads about this. Scroll down this page to FORUM JUMP and look for the forums on transgender.

    I apologize as I do not know how to put links in a post. But like I said - go to the forum jump and there are quite a few here. If you have more questions, feel free to pm me.

    ~~shark~~~~~~~~

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    oyyyyy

    lipstick wearing, straight looking, totally out, totally NOT into femme, femme queer woman.

    call me what you will lipstick lesbian, dyke, femme...
    its all ok by me!

    ~~~ Ana~~~

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    Re: My thoughts

    Originally posted by Butchlei
    I always understood that a lipstick lesbian was another term for stone femme. Met a lot of women who identified as lipstick lesbians who refused to go out in public without lipstick and looking all girly. It had nothing to do with their sexuality but more
    with their physical appearance.
    I'm glad that I'm figuring out what stone femme means now... I was really confused when I first came to this website because I thought that stone femme meant kinda what I thought stone butche meant... part of which was not wanting to be touched... so I was terribly confused when I saw personal ads for stone butches looking for stone femmes and vise versa... now I understand better... ok... now that I just admitted all that, lol...

    I've heard stories of women who will not leave the house while in the process of childbirth because they don't have all their makeup on and their hair done. I'm sorry, if I am about to have a baby or need to leave the house immediately, I don't care if I'm in my pajamas, but that is just me

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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by burgandy
    [B]Pie, question. Are you attracted to women who are more femme than you ever? just curious...

    Hi Burgandy....

    I guess when you put it that way, yeah I tend to be attracted to someone equally or less femme than me all the way to butch, but generally not more femme than me. That helped me to put my finger on it (so to speak...)

    Thanks!

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    Exclamation My 2 Cents

    To me, I always thought of female porn stars doing one another when I heard the term 'lipstick lesbian'.
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    I saw this defined in a book once, and I canít for the life of me remember what book it was.

    Cruel defined it best, I think. Since reading that book I have always thought of lipstick lesbians as those lesbians who always pass as a heterosexual woman, like it that way, and will not date anyone who doesnít.

    Femmes are a different thing entirely. We may pass as heterosexual women, but in most cases we definitely arenít trying to. We embrace and own our queerness, and we love us some butches.

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    Not a lipstick lesbian!

    My lesbian friends would say I was a lipstick lesbian, and until I found out what that meant, I really didn't mind. They were of the andro type, and I was the only one who wore make-up and lipstick in the group. Then I found out that lipstick lesbians are into other feminine lesbians, and I'm not about to share my lipstick with anyone. haha. The only lipstick I want my lover to be wearing is mine! (from my mad passionate kisses) I've been called a high femme, because I like to dress up in a classy sort of way, but I can also go without make-up and be fine with it. I'm not afraid to get dirty or break a nail, and I can usually put things together better then the butches I've been with. I identify as a Queer Femme, because I don't really feel like a lesbian, and I'm attracted to both Butches and Ftms. I used to think that if someone said they were a 'femme', then that meant they were into Butches, but now I'm seeing that it has taken on other meanings to different people. I pass as straight, but not on purpose. haha. Don't call me Lipstick.... I'm proud to be Femme!

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    Lightbulb getting on femme-mobile

    Stop the bus Gus.

    Ok...I get it now.

    (taking off Lipstick Lesbian T-shirt......putting on Femme For Life!! T-shirt)

    Ahhhh...that feels so much bettah....

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    I'm not either, but...

    I heard Pie Eyed say she was taking off her shirt and had to see the show....

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    Originally posted by MarthaStewWart
    I saw this defined in a book once, and I canít for the life of me remember what book it was.

    Cruel defined it best, I think. Since reading that book I have always thought of lipstick lesbians as those lesbians who always pass as a heterosexual woman, like it that way, and will not date anyone who doesnít.

    Femmes are a different thing entirely. We may pass as heterosexual women, but in most cases we definitely arenít trying to. We embrace and own our queerness, and we love us some butches.
    Here, here!

    I absolutely HATE being called 'lipstick lesbian'!
    ..........


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    Shamed Highly Confused

    Going through reading this thread left me completly mistified. here are the facts:

    1) I love to dress girlie, may not be in skirts all the time but either way look real girlie. (I have short hair, but a way cute girlie cut that lots of str8t grrls have and tend to cry if I think I even remotely look boyish)

    2) I have no problems dating someone more feminine that I am (even though I do get into femme contests with my gf) but have also dated butch, stone butch, andro, and ftm's. I have no problem, it kinda just goes on how I feel

    3) I am out, I don't hide it, but I don't offer it (at least where work is concerned) and I have no problem with PDA

    4) I love my makeup..including my lipstick.

    I have always identified as a femme, and always wondered if I was "lipstick lesbian" (BTW I have never had a problem with that term. BUT if lipstick lesbians only date other lipstick lesbians, and femmes don't date anyone more femme than themselves..that leaves me in limbo. So now I am lost...any advice?


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    shocked

    I'm shocked and confussed, I always thought I was a lipstick femme????? Lipstick femme, I thought was a girlie girl, who looked str8 and only liked Butch, stone butch and even a boi or two!!! OMG....I'm not a lipstick femme who likes other femme's.......sorry femme's are pretty and all but I like the kinda take charge dykes out there....so now what am I???? I do my nails once every two weeks. I dress and smell like a foo foo. I wear makeup everyday and would die of a heart attack if ever caught without it on. Please tell this....Butch lovin woman that I am, what I am??? LOL What am I??? I feel like I'm a Foo foo femme now...has anybody heard of that term???? Love and Kisses....Pamela the Poonfairy
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    Terms, schmerms

    Poon,

    hehe...I just love that name!

    Anywho...I've heard of a woman being foo foo as in a plain ole adjective, but never specifically "Foo Foo Woman". Of course, that really doesn't matter, honey. If you want to be called Charlene the Foo Foo Femme Machine, it would be unkind and disrespectful of us to not respond to you as you would prefer.

    Your identity is how YOU see yourself. The rest of us don't matter at all, so go on with your bad self!
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    Gemmefemme

    Thank you sweetie, Okay this is it....I like to be called a lipstick lesbian, I'm proud to stick the lesbian part in there, but I don't want people thinking I like femme's.....OMG......Only one can rule the house...giggles.....But thank you so much for letting me know I'm okay...I spoke with my Mac Daddy about this, she got all upset at me...she thinks I'm a lipstick foo foo kickass 100% girlie girl lesbian......so as long as she knows I am femme.....that's really all that matters right?....but still yet...I changed my little thingy from lipstick lesbian to Foo foo femme....don't want anybody thinking I'm some closet butch...OMG....Smiles to everybody Love and kisses Pamela the Poonfairy... P.S...Hey butch's...remember no offense ....but I could never be butch....heck I have trouble finding the keys at the bottom of my purse..can't even imagine working on a car.....or whatever you do with them....but thank God you all do.....
    ~ Watching me, wanting me, I can feel you pull me down. Fearing you, loving you, I won't let you pull me down. ~
    ~EvaneScence~

  40. #40
    Diamond Supporter Annie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Gender
    Femme with a mighty large strap-on
    Status
    Married. Sept 11 2004
    Quote
    Ka aroha, kaua tēnei kupu
    Posts
    8,124
    The original question asked: Is there a difference between Lipstick Lesbian versus Femme.

    The answer: YES.

    The degree of difference depends on the extent to which you think straights are like femmes.

    For me (who is almost always assumed to be straight) the difference is nothing to do with how I look (heterosexual with a twist), but how I AM. or how I perceive myself to be...

    I would love to live in a world where we define ourselves.

    By that I mean that we make the language fit US, rather than try to fit in the (currently inadequate) language.

    It's not the way we look, it's the way we are perceived, or described, or accepted (or not) IN LANGUAGE. It is our EXPERIENCE (lived, real in real life) that defines us, and our voices which place us there. It is OUR VOICES that define us... not according to what someone has said we should be... but by our own standards.

    I refuse to be compared to a straight woman. We are not the same. They know it (though can't "name" it usually), and it is not necessarily a conflict situation. We are different. Difference is OK. Really.
    A few steps forward, a few steps back. Perhaps the purpose is not so much heaven, but to learn to dance well.


    "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." Oscar Wilde

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