Same-Sex Sexual Assault - Butch-Femme.com

femmegirl72 · 07-13-2004, 09:38 AM

Even though I never wanted to start a thread, and even though I have doubts about putting this out here in this on-line community, I have decided to take the risk. And am starting a new thread because while there is a great thread on rape, I don't recall seeing much discussion there of date rape committed by someone of the same sex as the one being raped.

And that is what I am dealing with, the aftermath of being sexually assaulted by another woman (and I will not name names - but I did meet her through the personals on this website). I have found some great resources for helping me through this, but there is almost nothing on female-female sexual assault. There is one book that addresses male-male rape, and that's it.

So it makes me feel even more isolated and alone in working through this. Even though I know I can't be the only woman raped by another woman (or perhaps transgendered butch or ftm who has either been raped or did the raping of/by a woman), the experience is so rarely talked about anywhere.

Originally I was going to get another screen name to post this, because I was ashamed to let the few people who know me here know about what had happened to me. But I stayed up late last night reading about the shame factor for those who have been raped, and then thinking and writing about it, and I want to fight the usual transfer of shame from the rapist to the one raped. I am fighting my self-doubt about how I let this happen to myself. But I will not be ashamed that it did. Or at least I will try not to be ashamed.

Has this happened to anyone else here, who might want to talk about it? Not looking for therapy here (I am doing that with a professional), just a commonality of experience to lesson the feeling of isolation.

maegodw · 07-13-2004, 11:59 AM

Thanks for bringing this up, femmegirl. You're got ovaries! And kudos about not changing your sn. Fuck the shame!

As a survivor of sexual assault *several times over*, this topic is important to me.

This topic is rarely brought up. Perhaps same-sex sexual assault (esp. between women/trans) is not frequently addressed because our community is currently within a revolution- and to accuse a sister/brother of assault is a bit taboo at the moment.

For example, my straight girlfriend and I went to a GLBTQ mixer/function together in San Francisco a while back, and when I scampered off to flirt with someone, she used the bathroom and was raped by a butch inside a stall. I went looking for her and found her crying on the bathroom floor. She said that dozens of individuals had come in to use the bathroom and ignored her.

The folks at the festival were absolutely no help- not only were they skeptical that she had been raped (they suspected play that went too far), they refused to search for the rapist within the building after the assault had occured.

We ended up going to the local police. Thank god we were in San Francisco, because I imagine that most other places would NOT be willing to press charges for queer rape.

Words · 07-13-2004, 12:23 PM

femmegirl,

There's no shame in what happened to you. I was assaulted by an ex who couldn't handle the fact that I didn't love her "enough" to allow her to do exactly the same thing that my ex, bio-male husband had done to me, against my will, only a short while earlier. Several years on, I'm more or less 'over' what happened, meaning the incident itself, but I will never, ever forgive myself for falling into the trap of believing her claim, and, unfortunately, that of many others, male and female, straight and queer alike, that because the assault was carried out by a woman, it was of a less traumatic nature and therefore of less significance than the one that preceded it. Bullshit. Rape is rape is rape and I for one am sick and tired of hearing that because the guilty party is a spouse, regular partner, whatever, of the same sex, then the seriousness of the offence is somehow reduced.

Anyway, I just wanted you to know that you're not alone and to wish you well...

Words

femmegirl72 · 07-13-2004, 12:31 PM

Mae and Words, thank you so much for your posts, for letting me know I'm not alone.

All I can say right now.

DarkIsabelle · 07-13-2004, 06:59 PM

i was going to think long and hard before posting here, but i'm over thinking and at the point of acting.

last summer i was raped by a butch i met from another website. we had been talking online for months, and when we first started talking i was in a committed relationship. hy continued to pursue me, regardless, making sexual comments to me, etc., which i willingly engaged in, even though i knew and know it was a form of cheating. my relationship was already falling apart at that point, but that's not the point, i was still in it.

when my ex eventually moved out and the online butch found out, hy began to basically obsess over me. i made it clear that i wasn't interested in a relationship at that point, and that there were too many differences between us anyway for a relationship to work with us. the more i said no, the more hy pushed me to meet hym.

let me now explain my part in this, which doesn't make what hy did alright, i just need to own my own shit.

i was determined to prove hym wrong, that hy and i would never be able to get along in a relationship, so i went to see hym. i have no clue what i was thinking at the time, i suppose i wasn't thinking.

i went to see hym, at hys house, which was a 6 hour drive from me. BIG, BIG MISTAKE. i didn't know this person at all, and i put myself in hys house, in a strange city.

when i arrived we talked, hy told me hy knew hy could change my mind, i told hym hy was still wrong, one thing led to another, and i ended up in the hospital having surgery to repair a 3 inch tear inside my vagina. hy fisted me, with no glove and no lube, the way one would put their hand through a wall.

because of this, and the lack of trust it inspired in me, along with a great deal of cynicisym and bitterness, when i first came to this site i told people i was someone other than who i really am. i've since become honest about myself because i've found a great deal of support and a wonderful sense of community here.

at this point i'd like to publically appologize to all those who i lied to, and thank all those who have loved, accepted and supported me. you have no idea how much each of you have touched my life and helped me regain some faith in people.

thank you, femmegirl, for starting this thread.

you are sooooo not alone here, honey.

BrotherBilly · 07-13-2004, 07:35 PM

Wow Ladies I'm sorry to hear that this has happend to you all ....No means no , and all things should stop at that point...I wish there was something I could say to make things better for you ...This online stuff is very scary ,you really never know who you are talking to ...But I hope there are more of us out there that are good than bad.....I always tell people if you deside to go and meet someone please have a plan B and a safe call and address to let someone know where you are going ...I have had met alot of good people on here and some I really care to forget ,but have never run into anything like what you Ladies have had happen to you....Probably because I would kick there ass all over the place, But that's Me and I'm butch...((((((((((( Hugs to the Ladies )))))))))))..Please take care..BB

Jonathan · 07-13-2004, 08:04 PM

My fiancee directed me to this thread. She cannot write a response because it's too hard (and she is naturally very shy, to boot), but she wanted me to write for her to show her support to you and all others who have experienced what happened to all of you.

This is her story: Seven years ago, my fiancee was in a severe automobile accident. She was driven off the road by a drunk driver. Her 10 year old daughter was killed. She had to be extricated from the vehicle with the Jaws of Life and was then air-lifted to a medical facility for treatment so as to save her life.

As a result of this accident, she had two collapsed lungs, the bones in both wrists were smashed, and her pelvis and left hip were crushed. Her car had been on cruise control when it smashed into the tree, but it didn't disengage, and so it kept smashing into the tree over and over again. The doctors deduced that her head went through the windshield of her vehicle about 5 or 6 times before the cruise control disengaged.

She spent 6 weeks in the hospital, followed by 4-6 weeks in a rehabilitation center, and the remainder of the year in a private medical facility while she continued to heal. Initially, she was unable to walk, talk, or breath on her own, and could not even feed herself. While in the hospital, she had been given a private room because medical personnel were constantly coming into her room and she had all kinds of noisy machines hooked up to her.

While she was in the hospital (still unable to breath on her own or walk or talk), a woman from her church came to the hospital to see her. My fiancee and her family were very well-liked at their church, so many people from her church came regularly to see her.

But one time, this one particular woman came into her room, locked the door behind her, and proceeded to rape her. With two collapsed lungs and multiple broken bones, she was unable to call or signal for help. The visitor visited her night after night, raping her each time.

Finally, a nurse caught this woman in the act, thus sparing it from re-occuring any more...and yet the damage had been done.

No charges were pressed, but the hospital gave my fiancee a false identity and moved her to a different floor so this person could not find her again.

My fiancee asked me to write this for her because, emotionally, she couldn't do it, herself. She wanted all of you, and especially femmegirl72 who started this thread, to know she can relate to you and remembers everything as though it happened yesterday, and she wants you to know you're not alone.

She also wants me to say this: "As women, we are all strong, and survivors, and I think it is a testimony to our strength that we tell our stories in support of one another."

Written on behalf of the sweetest, bravest, most remarkable woman I know,

Jonathan

nottheoldest · 07-14-2004, 12:32 AM

Don't ever, ever, ever, feel ashamed. No means NO.
that sorry piece of SHIT that did this to you should be ashamed.

femmegirl72 · 07-14-2004, 01:00 AM

Isabelle, I can appreciate what you mean about owning your own shit. However, just because you went to someone's house does not mean you in any way are responsible for being raped by this asshole.

Yeah, easier to say to someone else than to believe it. Like you, I went to this asshole's apartment to meet her. I will say, though, that we spent a rather pleasant afternoon and evening together, and if I had met her at a public place, I would have felt comfortable enough with her to go back to her apartment.

I try to remember that I had no way of knowing that she would prove to be such a selfish bastard buttwipe.

I also freeze when I am afraid, become fuzzy in my thinking and unable to act on whatever thoughts of self-defense I have. Should I then say that I have to take some responsibility for being raped, because I am not mentally wired for fighting back? I know not, though I don't always feel so.

Anyway, Isabelle, I suppose we need to learn from our past - I will have to know someone a lot longer than an afternoon to go to their home with them in the future. But that doesn't make us responsible for what happened to us. I'm sorry that this horrible thing happened to you. My rapist attempted to forcibly fist me, though she was kind enough to use lube (ha ha) and gave up when I did fight against that. I'm sorry that yours resulted in such physical damage.

I hated the bruises for reminding me of what had happened every time I moved. I'm glad those physical reminders are now gone.

Jonathan, your fiancee indeed sounds like a wonderful, brave woman. How absolutely horrible that this would happen to her when she was already in such a vulnerable situation. She is right, it is a testimony to our strength to be able to talk about our stories. For myself, if I pretend to be brave and rationally think about how I am not to blame, maybe it will become my new reality.

BB and NTO, thanks for your kind and supportive words. BB, you're right, this online stuff is scary. I've made some great friends through the internet, and while I have met some whackadoodles in the past, they were all rather harmless relatively speaking and NOT the majority of the people I've met. This recent experience has thrown me for a loop. But I also know it could have happened with someone I met through a church group, or social group, or bar. If I had met this woman at any of these places I would have done the same thing I did from meeting her on the internet. Of course, NOW I wouldn't do those things.

I am much more verbose at night. I think this rambling will substitute for my journal writing tonight. It is late though, and time to try to sleep. I hope my sleeping patterns get straightened out before I have to go back to work next month.

Thank you all for letting me know I am not alone. It truly helps to know that. I hope this can continue to be a place of support and empathy for me and anyone else who needs it.

Words · 07-14-2004, 01:17 AM

Jonathan,

First of all, I am SO sorry about what happened to your partner; what a terrible, terrible experience.

Unfortunately, extreme vulnerability appears to act like a stimulant where some people are concerned. As a teenager, I had a very difficult time with my father, so difficult that, following one particularly nasty incident followed by a few days spent alone in the house while my parents and siblings were on holiday, I took a bottle of pills, my intention being that my parents would come home to find me dead on the floor and that my father would spend the rest of his life feeling guilty for what *he* had done. Anyway, I was lucky; someone called an ambulance and, thank God, I'm still here.

As distressing as it is to remember what happened, the thing that distresses me more is what happened in the ambulance. There was only one medic - a guy in his 50s I would imagine - and he took it upon himself to try and keep me awake by making me sit next to him and talking non-stop. I remember hardly nothing of the conversation, but what I do remember is his slipping his arm around me, pulling me to him, and saying, "You're such a pretty girl, now why would a pretty girl like you do something as stupid as that." It was then that he proceeded to slip his hand up my shirt and fondle my breast. Rather than pull away, I allowed him to do it (although looking back, considering the state I was in, 'allow' is perhaps not the right word; even had I wanted to stop him, I wouldn't have been capable). I still don't know WHY I didn't put up a fight - perhaps I just hated myself so much that I no longer cared what happened to me; after all, I HAD just tried to kill myself - but until today, whenever I remember the incident, I feel physically ill, not so much as a result of the memory of his hand on my breast, but rather, as a result of the knowledge that someone in such a position, someone whose job it was to help save lives, someone who people trusted, could be so callous, so sick, as to take advantage of a 14/15-year-old child who only a short while beforehand had attempted to end her life.

It's a sick world, full of equally sick people, as evidenced by all the stories in this thread. I spent many, many years regarding any abuse to which I was subjected - and there's been quite a bit - as some kind of Divine punishment for my having failed to be the kind of person that others seemed to want me to be, but not any more. I'm done with justifying the sick behavior of others, and part of being done with that means talking about what happened and telling myself, you have NOTHING to be ashamed of. The thing is, I wouldn't be able to do that if it wasn't for listening to stories like those found here and realizing that it wasn't ME, that there are others who, through no fault of their own, have been subjected to all kinds of abuse, much of it much 'worse,' in certain respects at least, than that to which I personally was subjected, which is why I would ask you Jonathan to please thank your partner, on my behalf for allowing you to come here and share her story. The same applies to everyone else who has posted here. I really believe that it's only through sharing our respective stories, through making others aware that abuse takes many forms and that no one is immune, that we can really turn something negative into something positive whilst at the same time finding comfort in the knowledge that we're clearly not alone.

Words

P.S. Incidentally, as a result of the incident mentioned here and the fact that the female partner mentioned in my previous post was a doctor, I now have a morbid fear of the medical establishment and of taking pills, which is why I got into alternative medicine. Reason tells me that my fear is unfounded, at least, based on what happened to me in the past, and that's something that I still need to work on. My point is, the healing process can be a long one, so to anyone who's recently been abused, I say, go easy on yourself and give yourself the time you need in order to heal. It's your body, your spirit, your story, your life, and YOUR right to determine how you deal with what happened to you. There is no one 'correct' way of dealing with abuse and we all have to find our own path...Hugs to you all, Words.

DarkIsabelle · 07-14-2004, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by femmegirl72

Isabelle, I can appreciate what you mean about owning your own shit. However, just because you went to someone's house does not mean you in any way are responsible for being raped by this asshole.

femmegirl, to clarify, i never meant to give the impression that i was somehow responsible for being raped because i went to this person's house. i mentioned this to illustrate the lesson i learned from this experience, which is that my ego can lead me to take unnecessary risks (my ego here being that i was going to "prove" to hym that hy couldn't make me fall for hym). hy chose to violate me, and that is on hym, i take absolutly no responsibility for hys actions. i am one who believes that i am always entitled to say no at any given point, and that the person to whom i say no has a moral and legal obligation to respect that. taking a lesson from this experience helps me feel empowered by reminding me that i have choices and i am not a victim. i am a firm believer that i am always responsible for my actions and behavior regardless of the actions and behaviors of others, but i am never responisble for anyone else's.

ALICESHOUSE · 10-27-2005, 04:15 AM

I was never ashamed after being raped by somebody of the same-sex,but i never called the cops either,why not?.At first i did'nt believe i'd been raped and when it finally hit me i actually was i blamed myself..this is real and it happens more then you think in our community.I've come to terms what happen to me and that it was'nt my fault because to begain with it was done by a very sick individual[she was a adult and i was only 11]..you just don't do shit like that to a child and be called sane.You pretty much have to be called sick if you rape anybody..and i'm not talking about fantasy rape,that stuff turns me on.You know what i'm talking about asshole..the feeling you get when you corner your victim and you out weigh her by a hundred pounds or more and you force your will on her..you sick prick!!.I don't like rape,either it be commited by hetro or homos.I feel they should get a taste of their own medicine..or something.But i do believe also still we need to watch out for our own backs at times..i mean by that using common sense sistahs.Can we prevent rape,yes its possible if we're adults.Peace

paknbutch · 10-27-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherBilly

but have never run into anything like what you Ladies have had happen to you....Probably because I would kick there ass all over the place, But that's Me and I'm butch

Billy, thank your lucky stars that you have never had to endure the horror the other posters have BUT if you think that by being butch or a bio-male you are immune to being raped, think again. Rape isn't about sex or about physical strength . . . rape is about the abuse of power by one person towards another. And, honestly, if, god forbid, you found yourself in a situation where your wishes were being ignored to that extent, threatening to "kick their ass all over the place", probably wouldn't prevent the rape but it just might get you killed.

pakn

SweetThang · 10-27-2005, 03:49 PM

dayum, this is SCARY.....Femmegirl, I'm so sorry this happened to you...PLEASE get some counseling for this, even if it's merely group counseling...you need help and support to move through this...

Makes ME wonder who this person is and if (s)he is still trolling for femmes on that site ( or on this site!)....Know that NOTHING you could have done (or NOT done) justifies what was done to you....NOTHING! DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF, and hold your head up like the beautiful person you are....

Take care, hun

ST

Strutts Wife · 10-27-2005, 04:50 PM

femmegirl72, you are a brave person for posting this. And no, you are not alone, because I believe it happens far more often than one might think. It happened to me as well, by someone I was dating.

The ironic part is that we were sleeping together at the time, but there came a night when I said 'no', for reasons long forgotten. But s/he thought because s/he was a cop, s/he had special license to do whatever she wanted, so s/he ignored my 'no' and forced me. And that word - "forced" - is how I referred to it for a long time, because I couldn't make myself believe that I had actually been raped. Rape, in my mind, was something that happened to you in a dark parking lot somewhere by a stranger, not in the apartment and in the bed of someone you were dating and whom you trusted as your protector.

I don't expect anyone to understand this, but I would far rather have been raped by a stranger than someone I had laughed with, talked with, made love with. To me, that was a betrayal of the highest order. It took me a lot longer to deal with the rape of my trust and my innocence than it did the rape of my body.

Again, you are a brave soul for bringing this out into the open. No one has the right to judge you or me or anyone else who is a survivor of any type of sexual assault. There should be no "grading system" on what type of rape is worse than another. The best thing you could have ever done to heal yourself is speak out about it like you have.

Tiffany

Not_A_Pretty_Grrl · 10-27-2005, 05:35 PM

i don't consider what happened to me to be "rape"....i really don't....cause I lay there, and let it happen...but what upsets me about what happened to me, was that it REALLY FUCKING HURT, and she knew that, and after two years of telling me that she loved me...she really didn't give a shit how much she was hurting me.(and yes, she could tell the difference between good hurting and bad hurting)...thats what upsets me...but in my case it wasn't rape....because i let it happen. It was my fault....

which is not to say that it is any of you other courageous ladies' faults for what happened to you...i think that rape by a female is almost worse that rape by a male, because it really leaves you with nowhere to feel safe....

GemmeFemme · 10-27-2005, 11:16 PM

Though I've never been raped by another female, I have been inappropriately touched by one as a child as well as being raped by a bio-male for years. I certainly can't (and won't) say that I 'know how you ladies feel' cuz I don't. But I will say that I feel your pain and am very proud of those who have spoken up here.

Same sex sexual assault is incredibly taboo, but so were hundreds of things that no longer are. Speaking up and verbalizing what has happened takes some of the power (and, yes, that is the force behind rape) away from the perp and gives it to you. You can't change what happened to you, but you can definitely learn from it and HEAL. Congratulations for having the courage to speak up (no matter the format) and give hope to others who are now dealing with or have recently experienced same sex rape.

You all will be in my thoughts tonight.

hollylewya · 11-10-2005, 05:15 PM

I didn't see this thread when it first came up; although, I knew about the incident

But today, I went threadstalking my friend, because I haven't talked to her in quite sometime.

Sometimes, I'm a shithead friend

But you know what really gets me? The fact that you, femmegirl, handled this with such class and dignity, and you're no longer around

While the shitstick who caused so much pain is still running around here

At any rate, that's a total derail

Anyone who thinks this sort of shit doesn't happen, or that, "Oh, Hy said it was all a lie she made up to get attention"...don't believe the bullshit hy tells you. Generally, if someone says that something unwarranted happened, it did

This shit happens wayyyyy more than I ever thought between women

And to the butch up there who hasn't had to deal with it, because you're butch

Guess what, buddy, I had to deal with this bullshit, and I'm butch, and I had kicked plenty of ass

catzpaw41 · 11-14-2005, 02:52 PM

Adding my voice to the cause, of education about this unfortunate fact of life.
Fact is, rape is simply about power over, a need to control, and the genders involved are irrelevant. It took me a while to call the date rape I experienced from a bio-male long ago in my misguided youth for what it was, since I 'knew' the attacker....at least we've cleared that one up. But I knew it was rape when a lover chose that as her farewell, and the trauma was no different, maybe worse for the betrayal by someone I had opened my heart to. It surely does happen....if it feels like rape, it is rape, no matter who has perpetrated it on whom. Yes, it's important to report the crime, get whatever counseling is needed, and to remember that the core of you is intact, and will survive.

pixiecat · 01-18-2006, 12:44 AM

Hi there,

I just wanted to post this resource in case anyone needed a support group or a hotline/counseling.

Lesbian sexual assault and rape crisis information
http://www.ibiblio.org/rcip/lgbtq.html

A good support group for this subject is rainbowhope.org and we have pinned a thread on woman-woman sexual assault at the top of one of the forums to make sure everyone feels safe telling their story.

take care, pixie

Do you need help now? You can call the National Sexual Assault Hotline, operated by RAINN, 24 hours a day at 1-800-656-HOPE (4673) or you can search for your local rape crisis center or hotlines. You may also call the Gay & Lesbian National Hotline - 1-888-THE-GLNH (1-888-843-4564) or Hotline/Linea de crisis LGBT domestic violence 1-617-423-7233

Apocalipstic · 03-13-2006, 04:50 PM

hollylewya pointed this thread out to me. I have never seen it before.

I started a thread I named "Do you hate bio-men and why? The Thread went in several directions, one of then seemed to be how we should always be on guard against men.

I made the point that woman can be just as abusive, and that somehow, we let that be OK.
Because of bad judgment on my part I have been in several bad situations with women over the years.....some of them I met on this very site. Do not ever believe that just because someone is biologically a woman, that they won't take advantage of your weakness.

I have been an out Lesbian for over 20 years, so most of my intimacy has been with women.

When I was 23, I was at a work party and trapped in a bathroom by a woman I worked with who was twice my size. Someone rescued me at last minute...but it really messed with my head. She was not fired, because, it can't be attempted rape since it was two women...right????

I have more than one girlfriend who has thought it was OK to try and hit me. Luckily I was able to deflect those blows...but what if I were not as strong as I am? Why do people think its OK to hit other people? why?

On more than one occasion I have gotten drunk with women I trusted, and they have taken advantage of that situation sexually. If it had been a man, I would have called the cops....since it was a woman, I blame myself.

I have been turned over by my girlfriend to be whipped by someone else with a belt so hard that I looked like I had been in a wreck, and could hardly move. Neither the butch that turned me over to the person who administered the blows, nor thar person felt that in any way they had done anything wrong. I feel it is my fault for putting myself in a vulnerable situation. It sure will not happen again.

Please always be vigilant, please met people you don't know in a public place. Just because you meet someone on this website does not mean they are OK. Even if someone is your girlfriend, it does not mean they have your best interests are heart. Do not depend on them always doing the right thing. You be responsible for you.

I have been emailed by 2 people at least who were not who they said they were at all. People who made up entire personalities to meet women with. I met them on Butch-Femme. Both have since been barred from the site. One of them threatened me, and had me scared to leave the house. I am not like that, but it happened last year to be exact. This same person has threatened and said all kinds of horrible things to several other women on this website.

I have so much more to say, but this has become a very upsetting thought process for me.

Some women who are abusive have no idea they are being so. No is no. whether its a women or a man, and whether or not the person is drunk or altered. Just because someone is your girlfriend does not give you the OK to force her to have sex. Forcing someone to have sex is rape.

I feel for each and every one of you here, I feel your pain.

I know I have rambled, and don't want to give the opinion I am a weak, unhappy woman, because I am not. I just want you all to be careful.

I will probably be back to post more when I calm down.

AsianLes · 03-13-2006, 07:15 PM

Rape is rape, whether it woman or man. If you doing it to someone against their will, it just rape whether you guys are married or what ever. If it not mutual, it forceful, doing something the partner do not like and tell them to stop but won't stop, it is sexual assaults.

Apocalipstic · 03-14-2006, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianLes

Rape is rape, whether it woman or man. If you doing it to someone against their will, it just rape whether you guys are married or what ever. If it not mutual, it forceful, doing something the partner do not like and tell them to stop but won't stop, it is sexual assaults.

Absolutely!
But people act differently about it, like its somehow not as valid.
I wonder why?

Lips · 03-14-2006, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

Absolutely!
But people act differently about it, like its somehow not as valid.
I wonder why?

I personally think it's because we are a puritian based society, therefore if it's woman to woman the conclusion drawn is there is no penis involved rendering it 'not REALLY sex' . If it's 2 men, then obviously the man that was raped should have 'beaten his ass'.........

.02

Lips

*Edited* to stop a horribly long sentence.

Apocalipstic · 03-14-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lips

I personally think it's because we are a puritian based society, therefore if it's woman to woman the conclusion drawn is there is no penis involved rendering it 'not REALLY sex' . If it's 2 men, then obviously the man that was raped should have 'beaten his ass'.........

.02

Lips

*Edited* to stop a horribly long sentence.

I am trying to be delicate here....
But it also appears at least one butch thinks they would kick some ass if it happened to them.

And you know what? I am capable of kicking the ass any of the women who have ever been abusive to me (except the amazon that trapped me in the bathroom at 23), but I didn't. I somehow felt I deserved it? Some how, in some sick way, I am still making excuses for them am blaming myself. Also, I am a pacifist, so I have stopped people from hitting me, but I feel it is wrong to hit back? It's all so convoluted in my head.

Is it my puritanistic Southern Baptist upbringing? or, am I such a control freak that I think I somehow had control over their behavior?

I am pretty confused about the whole thing.

darkgazer · 03-14-2006, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

Absolutely!
But people act differently about it, like its somehow not as valid.
I wonder why?

I agree with what lips said. That makes total sense. And I also think it's difficult for us in our community to look at this. It's almost a taboo. How can it be that gays would be abusers or rapists? Especially with women, I think it is difficult for other queer women to understand. I think it feels as though it is a worse betrayal because of the close emotional bond in our relationships. Maybe. I don't know. I've been thinking about it ever since i read your post yesterday in the do you hate bio men thread. I mean it doesn't make sense. There are abusers everywhere, that's a fact. It's a personality type. As I said in another thread an abuser has an inherent selfishness that borders on pathology. They see themselves as demi-gods or living gods. This is a personality type and I suppose it is only logical that it crosses all boundaries, sexual preference and gender notwithstanding. But the interesting part is how much more devastating it is to us when it is women. It's kind of like an extension of the holding women to a higher standard idea. I don't know. Like i said maybe it's connected to the expectations we hold for women, about women. But the reality is that it happens. And abuse in any form is just as horrible, just as wrong, just as insidious, just as real and just as serious a problem, whether it is perpetrated by a woman or a man. No more or no less.
Cin

Apocalipstic · 03-14-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkgazer

I agree with what lips said. That makes total sense. And I also think it's difficult for us in our community to look at this. It's almost a taboo. How can it be that gays would be abusers or rapists? Especially with women, I think it is difficult for other queer women to understand. I think it feels as though it is a worse betrayal because of the close emotional bond in our relationships. Maybe. I don't know. I've been thinking about it ever since i read your post yesterday in the do you hate bio men thread. I mean it doesn't make sense. There are abusers everywhere, that's a fact. It's a personality type. As I said in another thread an abuser has an inherent selfishness that borders on pathology. They see themselves as demi-gods or living gods. This is a personality type and I suppose it is only logical that it crosses all boundaries, sexual preference and gender notwithstanding. But the interesting part is how much more devastating it is to us when it is women. It's kind of like an extension of the holding women to a higher standard idea. I don't know. Like i said maybe it's connected to the expectations we hold for women, about women. But the reality is that it happens. And abuse in any form is just as horrible, just as wrong, just as insidious, just as real and just as serious a problem, whether it is perpetrated by a woman or a man. No more or no less.
Cin

So very true.
It should not be more devastating that its a woman. But somehow it is.

darkgazer · 03-14-2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

I am trying to be delicate here....
But it also appears at least one butch thinks they would kick some ass if it happened to them.

And you know what? I am capable of kicking the ass any of the women who have ever been abusive to me (except the amazon that trapped me in the bathroom at 23), but I didn't. I somehow felt I deserved it? Some how, in some sick way, I am still making excuses for them am blaming myself. Also, I am a pacifist, so I have stopped people from hitting me, but I feel it is wrong to hit back? It's all so convoluted in my head.

Is it my puritanistic Southern Baptist upbringing? or, am I such a control freak that I think I somehow had control over their behavior?

I am pretty confused about the whole thing.

You know i think it is very confusing even without the same sex thing. You are being manipulated, mind fucked how can it be anything but confusing, even years later. It's just a terrible thing. And somehow it seems worse when it's another woman. I never realized I was in an abusive relationship because i was a butch and she was a femme. She was just high strung she would tell me. I could have hit her back anytime I wanted, I could have knocked her unconscious if I chose to. But i would just try to control her, calm her down, try not let her hit me or kick me or bite me. It wasn't that hard, but it was hard, if you know what i mean. it was upsetting. One time she stabbed me in the bottom of my foot when i was sleeping. Another time she caught me totally by surprise and broke my nose when i was talking to a guy in a bar about going fishing. And one night when i was drunker than I should have been i hit her back. I will never forget that. I swear it was the only time. But it totally freaked me out. For years I thought i was an abuser. After all I'm a butch she's a femme, i hit her, case closed. It's a mind fuck. It really is. And even when i left her, I didn't do it because i believed she was abusing me. Damn it's so weird to look back at that today. I'm so not the same person.
Cin

bigbear · 03-14-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote: "Originally I was going to get another screen name to post this, because I was ashamed to let the few people who know me here know about what had happened to me. But I stayed up late last night reading about the shame factor for those who have been raped, and then thinking and writing about it, and I want to fight the usual transfer of shame from the rapist to the one raped. I am fighting my self-doubt about how I let this happen to myself. But I will not be ashamed that it did. Or at least I will try not to be ashamed."

Femmegirl72,
I want to send a big (((((bear hug)))) to you. You have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.

Big Bear

Apocalipstic · 03-14-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkgazer

You know i think it is very confusing even without the same sex thing. You are being manipulated, mind fucked how can it be anything but confusing, even years later. It's just a terrible thing. And somehow it seems worse when it's another woman. I never realized I was in an abusive relationship because i was a butch and she was a femme. She was just high strung she would tell me. I could have hit her back anytime I wanted, I could have knocked her unconscious if I chose to. But i would just try to control her, calm her down, try not let her hit me or kick me or bite me. It wasn't that hard, but it was hard, if you know what i mean. it was upsetting. One time she stabbed me in the bottom of my foot when i was sleeping. Another time she caught me totally by surprise and broke my nose when i was talking to a guy in a bar about going fishing. And one night when i was drunker than I should have been i hit her back. I will never forget that. I swear it was the only time. But it totally freaked me out. For years I thought i was an abuser. After all I'm a butch she's a femme, i hit her, case closed. It's a mind fuck. It really is. And even when i left her, I didn't do it because i believed she was abusing me. Damn it's so weird to look back at that today. I'm so not the same person.
Cin

I can totally relate.
but
She stabbed you in the foot????

I threw one girl (butch) who was trying to force me to have sex with her across the room. I am not proud of that either...but I freaked. In stopping another butch from hitting me, I accidentally dislocated her shoulder. I feel horrible about it.

Apocalipstic · 03-14-2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

I can totally relate.
but
She stabbed you in the foot????

I threw one girl (butch) who was trying to force me to have sex with her across the room. I am not proud of that either...but I freaked. In stopping another butch from hitting me, I accidentally dislocated her shoulder. I feel horrible about it.

OK, that sounds bad.....
The girl who ended up with a disloted shoulder tried to hit me and I grabed her wrist to stop her. she twisted around.
The other girl, would not get off me...I ask her to stop.
I am not a violent person. ugh

AsianLes · 03-16-2006, 03:36 AM

Ummm, I never really get the theory how people say if there no Penis involve then it not Sex? I mean, seriously, if someone was using a Strap On on their partner without her will, that is Rape. It not really about a Bio-Male Penis kind thing, but it a unwillingness to do something with someone. No one have to be engage in any sex acts if they don't like despite what ever it is. Force is still force, what difference does it make between a male and female. Sighh!!!!

Apocalipstic · 03-16-2006, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianLes

Ummm, I never really get the theory how people say if there no Penis involve then it not Sex? I mean, seriously, if someone was using a Strap On on their partner without her will, that is Rape. It not really about a Bio-Male Penis kind thing, but it a unwillingness to do something with someone. No one have to be engage in any sex acts if they don't like despite what ever it is. Force is still force, what difference does it make between a male and female. Sighh!!!!

Even if they don't use a strap on. If someone is forcing ANYTHING inside you is rape. Its not just penis related at all.

Whispertome · 03-16-2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

Even if they don't use a strap on. If someone is forcing ANYTHING inside you is rape. Its not just penis related at all.

You are so correct. Legally, rape is penetration of any orifice with any body part or object.

As a rape survivor, it took me years to tell anyone, I was so ashamed. I learned that as long as I held that shame and fear close to me, the rapist/s were still lording control and humiliation over me

Whether you fight back or not.it is not your fault, you did not do anything wrong, you did not ask for it, the rapist is fully responsible for the horrific act.

{{{{{femmegirl}}}}} thank you for this thread..you are stronger than you think

JackSpade · 03-16-2006, 11:55 AM

Everyone who has shared their traumatic experiences here you are courageous and powerful women. Sharing your story is the opprotunity to save another woman from going through the same horrific experience because given the right circumstances this could happen to any one of us, including the butch with the nonsensical idea that hy could kick their ass, rape is about sex for the attacker it is about power and control.

Sharing your experiences exemplifies the very meaning of Valor.

JackSpade · 03-16-2006, 12:30 PM

rape is about sex for the attacker it is about power and control.

Sharing your experiences exemplifies the very meaning of Valor.

[/quote]

Mistake above, I meant, rape ISN'T about sex for the attacker

ArchAngel Gabriel · 03-16-2006, 01:06 PM

I can't do it. Not yet. I will just say me, too. If anyone anywhere at any time needs help should you need it, get ahold of me. I will listen.

ELISHEBA · 09-23-2007, 04:36 PM

I happened to me too...I've been in a long relationship with another women. She was and still is an alcoholic. When she got drunk she used me...forced me to make love to her...I hated being with her when she got drunk - she just wouldn't let me go.
She abused me.... verbally and physically....It was a long nightmare...

Whispertome · 09-23-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paknbutch

Billy, thank your lucky stars that you have never had to endure the horror the other posters have BUT if you think that by being butch or a bio-male you are immune to being raped, think again. Rape isn't about sex or about physical strength . . . rape is about the abuse of power by one person towards another. And, honestly, if, god forbid, you found yourself in a situation where your wishes were being ignored to that extent, threatening to "kick their ass all over the place", probably wouldn't prevent the rape but it just might get you killed.

pakn

I know this is an old post, I was going to reply to this later. This post upset me so much, I got back on line

NO ONE IS IMMUNE TO BEING RAPED...Working where I did, I can tell you that both men and women are raped. Men tend to not report it, due to embarrassment that that they were unable to stop it, for the reason above, or they are afraid to report it because someone might question their sexuality...

Off my soap box

Whispertome · 09-24-2007, 08:24 PM

Hi....I look at my preivous post and know I could have said things a little more tactful??? sorry

I was just so angry when I saw that post..

Peace

07-13-2004, 09:38 AM	#1
femmegirl72 Basic Member Apr 2004 Texas Femme Photos 760 Rep Power: 8213535	Same-Sex Sexual Assault Even though I never wanted to start a thread, and even though I have doubts about putting this out here in this on-line community, I have decided to take the risk. And am starting a new thread because while there is a great thread on rape, I don't recall seeing much discussion there of date rape committed by someone of the same sex as the one being raped. And that is what I am dealing with, the aftermath of being sexually assaulted by another woman (and I will not name names - but I did meet her through the personals on this website). I have found some great resources for helping me through this, but there is almost nothing on female-female sexual assault. There is one book that addresses male-male rape, and that's it. So it makes me feel even more isolated and alone in working through this. Even though I know I can't be the only woman raped by another woman (or perhaps transgendered butch or ftm who has either been raped or did the raping of/by a woman), the experience is so rarely talked about anywhere. Originally I was going to get another screen name to post this, because I was ashamed to let the few people who know me here know about what had happened to me. But I stayed up late last night reading about the shame factor for those who have been raped, and then thinking and writing about it, and I want to fight the usual transfer of shame from the rapist to the one raped. I am fighting my self-doubt about how I let this happen to myself. But I will not be ashamed that it did. Or at least I will try not to be ashamed. Has this happened to anyone else here, who might want to talk about it? Not looking for therapy here (I am doing that with a professional), just a commonality of experience to lesson the feeling of isolation.

07-13-2004, 07:35 PM	#6
BrotherBilly Dude in the making .... Mar 2004 Nashville, TN .. her Daddy ~ Billy~ Photos 9,183 Rep Power: 71582842	Wow Ladies I'm sorry to hear that this has happend to you all ....No means no , and all things should stop at that point...I wish there was something I could say to make things better for you ...This online stuff is very scary ,you really never know who you are talking to ...But I hope there are more of us out there that are good than bad.....I always tell people if you deside to go and meet someone please have a plan B and a safe call and address to let someone know where you are going ...I have had met alot of good people on here and some I really care to forget ,but have never run into anything like what you Ladies have had happen to you....Probably because I would kick there ass all over the place, But that's Me and I'm butch...((((((((((( Hugs to the Ladies )))))))))))..Please take care..BB __________________ . I'm grateful for good times , but I've not forgotten from where I've come. Today My priority is staying clean.... There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity ..

07-13-2004, 08:04 PM	#7
Jonathan Basic Member Oct 2002 United States of America guy Photos 374 Rep Power: 5535786	I am the mouthpiece for another... My fiancee directed me to this thread. She cannot write a response because it's too hard (and she is naturally very shy, to boot), but she wanted me to write for her to show her support to you and all others who have experienced what happened to all of you. This is her story: Seven years ago, my fiancee was in a severe automobile accident. She was driven off the road by a drunk driver. Her 10 year old daughter was killed. She had to be extricated from the vehicle with the Jaws of Life and was then air-lifted to a medical facility for treatment so as to save her life. As a result of this accident, she had two collapsed lungs, the bones in both wrists were smashed, and her pelvis and left hip were crushed. Her car had been on cruise control when it smashed into the tree, but it didn't disengage, and so it kept smashing into the tree over and over again. The doctors deduced that her head went through the windshield of her vehicle about 5 or 6 times before the cruise control disengaged. She spent 6 weeks in the hospital, followed by 4-6 weeks in a rehabilitation center, and the remainder of the year in a private medical facility while she continued to heal. Initially, she was unable to walk, talk, or breath on her own, and could not even feed herself. While in the hospital, she had been given a private room because medical personnel were constantly coming into her room and she had all kinds of noisy machines hooked up to her. While she was in the hospital (still unable to breath on her own or walk or talk), a woman from her church came to the hospital to see her. My fiancee and her family were very well-liked at their church, so many people from her church came regularly to see her. But one time, this one particular woman came into her room, locked the door behind her, and proceeded to rape her. With two collapsed lungs and multiple broken bones, she was unable to call or signal for help. The visitor visited her night after night, raping her each time. Finally, a nurse caught this woman in the act, thus sparing it from re-occuring any more...and yet the damage had been done. No charges were pressed, but the hospital gave my fiancee a false identity and moved her to a different floor so this person could not find her again. My fiancee asked me to write this for her because, emotionally, she couldn't do it, herself. She wanted all of you, and especially femmegirl72 who started this thread, to know she can relate to you and remembers everything as though it happened yesterday, and she wants you to know you're not alone. She also wants me to say this: "As women, we are all strong, and survivors, and I think it is a testimony to our strength that we tell our stories in support of one another." Written on behalf of the sweetest, bravest, most remarkable woman I know, Jonathan __________________ “Since you get more joy out of giving joy to others, you should put a good deal of thought into the happiness that you are able to give.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

07-14-2004, 12:32 AM	#8
nottheoldest Basic Member May 2003 Houston, Tx. single fukn latin stone bull dyke Photos 1,411 Rep Power: 16702707	Ms. Femmegirl72 Don't ever, ever, ever, feel ashamed. No means NO. that sorry piece of SHIT that did this to you should be ashamed. __________________ Accept that some days you're the pigeon, and some days you're the statue.

10-27-2005, 11:16 PM	#17
GemmeFemme The Music and the Mirror Jan 2004 The Chorus Line His Singular Sensation Queer Stone Femme Girl Occasionally Defiant, Often Sassy, Always ME Photos 25,724 Rep Power: 71582877	Though I've never been raped by another female, I have been inappropriately touched by one as a child as well as being raped by a bio-male for years. I certainly can't (and won't) say that I 'know how you ladies feel' cuz I don't. But I will say that I feel your pain and am very proud of those who have spoken up here. Same sex sexual assault is incredibly taboo, but so were hundreds of things that no longer are. Speaking up and verbalizing what has happened takes some of the power (and, yes, that is the force behind rape) away from the perp and gives it to you. You can't change what happened to you, but you can definitely learn from it and HEAL. Congratulations for having the courage to speak up (no matter the format) and give hope to others who are now dealing with or have recently experienced same sex rape. You all will be in my thoughts tonight. __________________ Disclaimer: Thread Derailer Extraordinaire My Old Gallery Equal Opportunity Flirt ~ Gemme's Hope Chest ~ Princess I'veGotYourNookieRightHereNookie Gemme of Femmes Mistress Bjork Babe Alice P. Fraggle Ya Ya Queen Shops Too Much SFM Sistah

07-13-2004, 11:59 AM	#2
maegodw Basic Member Jun 2004 seattle enthralled singing vegan femme Photos 194 Rep Power: 7291705	Thanks for bringing this up, femmegirl. You're got ovaries! And kudos about not changing your sn. Fuck the shame! As a survivor of sexual assault several times over, this topic is important to me. This topic is rarely brought up. Perhaps same-sex sexual assault (esp. between women/trans) is not frequently addressed because our community is currently within a revolution- and to accuse a sister/brother of assault is a bit taboo at the moment. For example, my straight girlfriend and I went to a GLBTQ mixer/function together in San Francisco a while back, and when I scampered off to flirt with someone, she used the bathroom and was raped by a butch inside a stall. I went looking for her and found her crying on the bathroom floor. She said that dozens of individuals had come in to use the bathroom and ignored her. The folks at the festival were absolutely no help- not only were they skeptical that she had been raped (they suspected play that went too far), they refused to search for the rapist within the building after the assault had occured. We ended up going to the local police. Thank god we were in San Francisco, because I imagine that most other places would NOT be willing to press charges for queer rape.

07-13-2004, 12:23 PM	#3
Words Basic Member May 2003 UK Taken Femme submissive Photos 3,437 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 71582835	femmegirl, There's no shame in what happened to you. I was assaulted by an ex who couldn't handle the fact that I didn't love her "enough" to allow her to do exactly the same thing that my ex, bio-male husband had done to me, against my will, only a short while earlier. Several years on, I'm more or less 'over' what happened, meaning the incident itself, but I will never, ever forgive myself for falling into the trap of believing her claim, and, unfortunately, that of many others, male and female, straight and queer alike, that because the assault was carried out by a woman, it was of a less traumatic nature and therefore of less significance than the one that preceded it. Bullshit. Rape is rape is rape and I for one am sick and tired of hearing that because the guilty party is a spouse, regular partner, whatever, of the same sex, then the seriousness of the offence is somehow reduced. Anyway, I just wanted you to know that you're not alone and to wish you well... Words

07-13-2004, 12:31 PM	#4
femmegirl72 Basic Member Apr 2004 Texas Femme Photos 760 Rep Power: 8213535	Mae and Words, thank you so much for your posts, for letting me know I'm not alone. All I can say right now.

07-13-2004, 06:59 PM	#5
DarkIsabelle Basic Member Feb 2004 . . Photos 364 Rep Power: 7158323	i was going to think long and hard before posting here, but i'm over thinking and at the point of acting. last summer i was raped by a butch i met from another website. we had been talking online for months, and when we first started talking i was in a committed relationship. hy continued to pursue me, regardless, making sexual comments to me, etc., which i willingly engaged in, even though i knew and know it was a form of cheating. my relationship was already falling apart at that point, but that's not the point, i was still in it. when my ex eventually moved out and the online butch found out, hy began to basically obsess over me. i made it clear that i wasn't interested in a relationship at that point, and that there were too many differences between us anyway for a relationship to work with us. the more i said no, the more hy pushed me to meet hym. let me now explain my part in this, which doesn't make what hy did alright, i just need to own my own shit. i was determined to prove hym wrong, that hy and i would never be able to get along in a relationship, so i went to see hym. i have no clue what i was thinking at the time, i suppose i wasn't thinking. i went to see hym, at hys house, which was a 6 hour drive from me. BIG, BIG MISTAKE. i didn't know this person at all, and i put myself in hys house, in a strange city. when i arrived we talked, hy told me hy knew hy could change my mind, i told hym hy was still wrong, one thing led to another, and i ended up in the hospital having surgery to repair a 3 inch tear inside my vagina. hy fisted me, with no glove and no lube, the way one would put their hand through a wall. because of this, and the lack of trust it inspired in me, along with a great deal of cynicisym and bitterness, when i first came to this site i told people i was someone other than who i really am. i've since become honest about myself because i've found a great deal of support and a wonderful sense of community here. at this point i'd like to publically appologize to all those who i lied to, and thank all those who have loved, accepted and supported me. you have no idea how much each of you have touched my life and helped me regain some faith in people. thank you, femmegirl, for starting this thread. you are sooooo not alone here, honey.

07-14-2004, 01:00 AM	#9
femmegirl72 Basic Member Apr 2004 Texas Femme Photos 760 Rep Power: 8213535	Isabelle, I can appreciate what you mean about owning your own shit. However, just because you went to someone's house does not mean you in any way are responsible for being raped by this asshole. Yeah, easier to say to someone else than to believe it. Like you, I went to this asshole's apartment to meet her. I will say, though, that we spent a rather pleasant afternoon and evening together, and if I had met her at a public place, I would have felt comfortable enough with her to go back to her apartment. I try to remember that I had no way of knowing that she would prove to be such a selfish bastard buttwipe. I also freeze when I am afraid, become fuzzy in my thinking and unable to act on whatever thoughts of self-defense I have. Should I then say that I have to take some responsibility for being raped, because I am not mentally wired for fighting back? I know not, though I don't always feel so. Anyway, Isabelle, I suppose we need to learn from our past - I will have to know someone a lot longer than an afternoon to go to their home with them in the future. But that doesn't make us responsible for what happened to us. I'm sorry that this horrible thing happened to you. My rapist attempted to forcibly fist me, though she was kind enough to use lube (ha ha) and gave up when I did fight against that. I'm sorry that yours resulted in such physical damage. I hated the bruises for reminding me of what had happened every time I moved. I'm glad those physical reminders are now gone. Jonathan, your fiancee indeed sounds like a wonderful, brave woman. How absolutely horrible that this would happen to her when she was already in such a vulnerable situation. She is right, it is a testimony to our strength to be able to talk about our stories. For myself, if I pretend to be brave and rationally think about how I am not to blame, maybe it will become my new reality. BB and NTO, thanks for your kind and supportive words. BB, you're right, this online stuff is scary. I've made some great friends through the internet, and while I have met some whackadoodles in the past, they were all rather harmless relatively speaking and NOT the majority of the people I've met. This recent experience has thrown me for a loop. But I also know it could have happened with someone I met through a church group, or social group, or bar. If I had met this woman at any of these places I would have done the same thing I did from meeting her on the internet. Of course, NOW I wouldn't do those things. I am much more verbose at night. I think this rambling will substitute for my journal writing tonight. It is late though, and time to try to sleep. I hope my sleeping patterns get straightened out before I have to go back to work next month. Thank you all for letting me know I am not alone. It truly helps to know that. I hope this can continue to be a place of support and empathy for me and anyone else who needs it.

07-14-2004, 01:17 AM	#10
Words Basic Member May 2003 UK Taken Femme submissive Photos 3,437 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 71582835	Jonathan, First of all, I am SO sorry about what happened to your partner; what a terrible, terrible experience. Unfortunately, extreme vulnerability appears to act like a stimulant where some people are concerned. As a teenager, I had a very difficult time with my father, so difficult that, following one particularly nasty incident followed by a few days spent alone in the house while my parents and siblings were on holiday, I took a bottle of pills, my intention being that my parents would come home to find me dead on the floor and that my father would spend the rest of his life feeling guilty for what he had done. Anyway, I was lucky; someone called an ambulance and, thank God, I'm still here. As distressing as it is to remember what happened, the thing that distresses me more is what happened in the ambulance. There was only one medic - a guy in his 50s I would imagine - and he took it upon himself to try and keep me awake by making me sit next to him and talking non-stop. I remember hardly nothing of the conversation, but what I do remember is his slipping his arm around me, pulling me to him, and saying, "You're such a pretty girl, now why would a pretty girl like you do something as stupid as that." It was then that he proceeded to slip his hand up my shirt and fondle my breast. Rather than pull away, I allowed him to do it (although looking back, considering the state I was in, 'allow' is perhaps not the right word; even had I wanted to stop him, I wouldn't have been capable). I still don't know WHY I didn't put up a fight - perhaps I just hated myself so much that I no longer cared what happened to me; after all, I HAD just tried to kill myself - but until today, whenever I remember the incident, I feel physically ill, not so much as a result of the memory of his hand on my breast, but rather, as a result of the knowledge that someone in such a position, someone whose job it was to help save lives, someone who people trusted, could be so callous, so sick, as to take advantage of a 14/15-year-old child who only a short while beforehand had attempted to end her life. It's a sick world, full of equally sick people, as evidenced by all the stories in this thread. I spent many, many years regarding any abuse to which I was subjected - and there's been quite a bit - as some kind of Divine punishment for my having failed to be the kind of person that others seemed to want me to be, but not any more. I'm done with justifying the sick behavior of others, and part of being done with that means talking about what happened and telling myself, you have NOTHING to be ashamed of. The thing is, I wouldn't be able to do that if it wasn't for listening to stories like those found here and realizing that it wasn't ME, that there are others who, through no fault of their own, have been subjected to all kinds of abuse, much of it much 'worse,' in certain respects at least, than that to which I personally was subjected, which is why I would ask you Jonathan to please thank your partner, on my behalf for allowing you to come here and share her story. The same applies to everyone else who has posted here. I really believe that it's only through sharing our respective stories, through making others aware that abuse takes many forms and that no one is immune, that we can really turn something negative into something positive whilst at the same time finding comfort in the knowledge that we're clearly not alone. Words P.S. Incidentally, as a result of the incident mentioned here and the fact that the female partner mentioned in my previous post was a doctor, I now have a morbid fear of the medical establishment and of taking pills, which is why I got into alternative medicine. Reason tells me that my fear is unfounded, at least, based on what happened to me in the past, and that's something that I still need to work on. My point is, the healing process can be a long one, so to anyone who's recently been abused, I say, go easy on yourself and give yourself the time you need in order to heal. It's your body, your spirit, your story, your life, and YOUR right to determine how you deal with what happened to you. There is no one 'correct' way of dealing with abuse and we all have to find our own path...Hugs to you all, Words.

10-27-2005, 04:15 AM	#12
ALICESHOUSE Basic Member Feb 2004 Home Loved..but i'm a flirt. Butch..(Just call me SIR!) Photos 2,721 Rep Power: 0	I was never ashamed after being raped by somebody of the same-sex,but i never called the cops either,why not?.At first i did'nt believe i'd been raped and when it finally hit me i actually was i blamed myself..this is real and it happens more then you think in our community.I've come to terms what happen to me and that it was'nt my fault because to begain with it was done by a very sick individual[she was a adult and i was only 11]..you just don't do shit like that to a child and be called sane.You pretty much have to be called sick if you rape anybody..and i'm not talking about fantasy rape,that stuff turns me on.You know what i'm talking about asshole..the feeling you get when you corner your victim and you out weigh her by a hundred pounds or more and you force your will on her..you sick prick!!.I don't like rape,either it be commited by hetro or homos.I feel they should get a taste of their own medicine..or something.But i do believe also still we need to watch out for our own backs at times..i mean by that using common sense sistahs.Can we prevent rape,yes its possible if we're adults.Peace

10-27-2005, 03:49 PM	#14
SweetThang Cunning Linguist... Sep 2004 the sunny South Blissfully engaged completely femme Photos 3,204 Rep Power: 0	dayum, this is SCARY.....Femmegirl, I'm so sorry this happened to you...PLEASE get some counseling for this, even if it's merely group counseling...you need help and support to move through this... Makes ME wonder who this person is and if (s)he is still trolling for femmes on that site ( or on this site!)....Know that NOTHING you could have done (or NOT done) justifies what was done to you....NOTHING! DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF, and hold your head up like the beautiful person you are.... Take care, hun ST

10-27-2005, 04:50 PM	#15
Strutts Wife Basic Member Oct 2005 Gulfport, FL Hys to the very end of time Stone Femme Photos 6,682 Rep Power: 71582828	femmegirl72, you are a brave person for posting this. And no, you are not alone, because I believe it happens far more often than one might think. It happened to me as well, by someone I was dating. The ironic part is that we were sleeping together at the time, but there came a night when I said 'no', for reasons long forgotten. But s/he thought because s/he was a cop, s/he had special license to do whatever she wanted, so s/he ignored my 'no' and forced me. And that word - "forced" - is how I referred to it for a long time, because I couldn't make myself believe that I had actually been raped. Rape, in my mind, was something that happened to you in a dark parking lot somewhere by a stranger, not in the apartment and in the bed of someone you were dating and whom you trusted as your protector. I don't expect anyone to understand this, but I would far rather have been raped by a stranger than someone I had laughed with, talked with, made love with. To me, that was a betrayal of the highest order. It took me a lot longer to deal with the rape of my trust and my innocence than it did the rape of my body. Again, you are a brave soul for bringing this out into the open. No one has the right to judge you or me or anyone else who is a survivor of any type of sexual assault. There should be no "grading system" on what type of rape is worse than another. The best thing you could have ever done to heal yourself is speak out about it like you have. Tiffany

10-27-2005, 05:35 PM	#16
Not_A_Pretty_Grrl Basic Member Sep 2005 Philadelphia unattached. queer femme Photos 711 Rep Power: 71582816	i don't consider what happened to me to be "rape"....i really don't....cause I lay there, and let it happen...but what upsets me about what happened to me, was that it REALLY FUCKING HURT, and she knew that, and after two years of telling me that she loved me...she really didn't give a shit how much she was hurting me.(and yes, she could tell the difference between good hurting and bad hurting)...thats what upsets me...but in my case it wasn't rape....because i let it happen. It was my fault.... which is not to say that it is any of you other courageous ladies' faults for what happened to you...i think that rape by a female is almost worse that rape by a male, because it really leaves you with nowhere to feel safe....

11-10-2005, 05:15 PM	#18
hollylewya Dirty Cash Dylan May 2003 Makin' Mama moan She Mah Booty Pebbles Looks like money; smells like dollars Photos 10,753 Rep Power: 71582851	I didn't see this thread when it first came up; although, I knew about the incident But today, I went threadstalking my friend, because I haven't talked to her in quite sometime. Sometimes, I'm a shithead friend But you know what really gets me? The fact that you, femmegirl, handled this with such class and dignity, and you're no longer around While the shitstick who caused so much pain is still running around here At any rate, that's a total derail Anyone who thinks this sort of shit doesn't happen, or that, "Oh, Hy said it was all a lie she made up to get attention"...don't believe the bullshit hy tells you. Generally, if someone says that something unwarranted happened, it did This shit happens wayyyyy more than I ever thought between women And to the butch up there who hasn't had to deal with it, because you're butch Guess what, buddy, I had to deal with this bullshit, and I'm butch, and I had kicked plenty of ass __________________ "I'm far too vain to get hooked on meth" When in doubt, eat cookies

11-14-2005, 02:52 PM	#19
catzpaw41 Basic Member Sep 2003 SoCal Blissfully attached Femme Photos 1,070 Rep Power: 11141331	Adding my voice to the cause, of education about this unfortunate fact of life. Fact is, rape is simply about power over, a need to control, and the genders involved are irrelevant. It took me a while to call the date rape I experienced from a bio-male long ago in my misguided youth for what it was, since I 'knew' the attacker....at least we've cleared that one up. But I knew it was rape when a lover chose that as her farewell, and the trauma was no different, maybe worse for the betrayal by someone I had opened my heart to. It surely does happen....if it feels like rape, it is rape, no matter who has perpetrated it on whom. Yes, it's important to report the crime, get whatever counseling is needed, and to remember that the core of you is intact, and will survive. __________________ Trust Everybody But Brand Your Cattle Ya-Ya Viscountess Cheshire Kitten Ya-Ya Empress (Who Needs a Financial Statement First) Chinga Quedito

01-18-2006, 12:44 AM	#20
pixiecat Basic Member Jan 2006 US I am androgynous- pixie Photos 1 Rep Power: 0	Hi there, I just wanted to post this resource in case anyone needed a support group or a hotline/counseling. Lesbian sexual assault and rape crisis information http://www.ibiblio.org/rcip/lgbtq.html A good support group for this subject is rainbowhope.org and we have pinned a thread on woman-woman sexual assault at the top of one of the forums to make sure everyone feels safe telling their story. take care, pixie Do you need help now? You can call the National Sexual Assault Hotline, operated by RAINN, 24 hours a day at 1-800-656-HOPE (4673) or you can search for your local rape crisis center or hotlines. You may also call the Gay & Lesbian National Hotline - 1-888-THE-GLNH (1-888-843-4564) or Hotline/Linea de crisis LGBT domestic violence 1-617-423-7233

03-13-2006, 04:50 PM	#21
Apocalipstic Dreaming Oct 2002 Nashville Waiting for the paperwork.....:) Pink Confection Photos 19,623 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 71582872	hollylewya pointed this thread out to me. I have never seen it before. I started a thread I named "Do you hate bio-men and why? The Thread went in several directions, one of then seemed to be how we should always be on guard against men. I made the point that woman can be just as abusive, and that somehow, we let that be OK. Because of bad judgment on my part I have been in several bad situations with women over the years.....some of them I met on this very site. Do not ever believe that just because someone is biologically a woman, that they won't take advantage of your weakness. I have been an out Lesbian for over 20 years, so most of my intimacy has been with women. When I was 23, I was at a work party and trapped in a bathroom by a woman I worked with who was twice my size. Someone rescued me at last minute...but it really messed with my head. She was not fired, because, it can't be attempted rape since it was two women...right???? I have more than one girlfriend who has thought it was OK to try and hit me. Luckily I was able to deflect those blows...but what if I were not as strong as I am? Why do people think its OK to hit other people? why? On more than one occasion I have gotten drunk with women I trusted, and they have taken advantage of that situation sexually. If it had been a man, I would have called the cops....since it was a woman, I blame myself. I have been turned over by my girlfriend to be whipped by someone else with a belt so hard that I looked like I had been in a wreck, and could hardly move. Neither the butch that turned me over to the person who administered the blows, nor thar person felt that in any way they had done anything wrong. I feel it is my fault for putting myself in a vulnerable situation. It sure will not happen again. Please always be vigilant, please met people you don't know in a public place. Just because you meet someone on this website does not mean they are OK. Even if someone is your girlfriend, it does not mean they have your best interests are heart. Do not depend on them always doing the right thing. You be responsible for you. I have been emailed by 2 people at least who were not who they said they were at all. People who made up entire personalities to meet women with. I met them on Butch-Femme. Both have since been barred from the site. One of them threatened me, and had me scared to leave the house. I am not like that, but it happened last year to be exact. This same person has threatened and said all kinds of horrible things to several other women on this website. I have so much more to say, but this has become a very upsetting thought process for me. Some women who are abusive have no idea they are being so. No is no. whether its a women or a man, and whether or not the person is drunk or altered. Just because someone is your girlfriend does not give you the OK to force her to have sex. Forcing someone to have sex is rape. I feel for each and every one of you here, I feel your pain. I know I have rambled, and don't want to give the opinion I am a weak, unhappy woman, because I am not. I just want you all to be careful. I will probably be back to post more when I calm down. __________________ Many are Called Few are Frozen Last edited by Apocalipstic; 03-13-2006 at 04:57 PM.

03-13-2006, 07:15 PM	#22
AsianLes Basic Member Feb 2006 Southern California Pain doesn't hurt when that's all you've ever felt I just don't like "Bio Males-Men" Photos 580 Rep Power: 59526352	Rape is rape, whether it woman or man. If you doing it to someone against their will, it just rape whether you guys are married or what ever. If it not mutual, it forceful, doing something the partner do not like and tell them to stop but won't stop, it is sexual assaults. __________________ Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, shame on me.

03-14-2006, 10:15 AM	#29
bigbear Basic Member Oct 2002 pennsylvania attached to a very wonderful woman butch bear Photos 467 Rep Power: 14659528	Quote: "Originally I was going to get another screen name to post this, because I was ashamed to let the few people who know me here know about what had happened to me. But I stayed up late last night reading about the shame factor for those who have been raped, and then thinking and writing about it, and I want to fight the usual transfer of shame from the rapist to the one raped. I am fighting my self-doubt about how I let this happen to myself. But I will not be ashamed that it did. Or at least I will try not to be ashamed." Femmegirl72, I want to send a big (((((bear hug)))) to you. You have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Big Bear Last edited by bigbear; 03-14-2006 at 10:28 AM.

03-16-2006, 03:36 AM	#32
AsianLes Basic Member Feb 2006 Southern California Pain doesn't hurt when that's all you've ever felt I just don't like "Bio Males-Men" Photos 580 Rep Power: 59526352	Ummm, I never really get the theory how people say if there no Penis involve then it not Sex? I mean, seriously, if someone was using a Strap On on their partner without her will, that is Rape. It not really about a Bio-Male Penis kind thing, but it a unwillingness to do something with someone. No one have to be engage in any sex acts if they don't like despite what ever it is. Force is still force, what difference does it make between a male and female. Sighh!!!! __________________ Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, shame on me.

03-16-2006, 11:55 AM	#35
JackSpade Basic Member Dec 2005 the Spade Mansion jes transgendered / retrosexual Photos 4,270 Rep Power: 71582822	Everyone who has shared their traumatic experiences here you are courageous and powerful women. Sharing your story is the opprotunity to save another woman from going through the same horrific experience because given the right circumstances this could happen to any one of us, including the butch with the nonsensical idea that hy could kick their ass, rape is about sex for the attacker it is about power and control. Sharing your experiences exemplifies the very meaning of Valor.

03-16-2006, 12:30 PM	#36
JackSpade Basic Member Dec 2005 the Spade Mansion jes transgendered / retrosexual Photos 4,270 Rep Power: 71582822	rape is about sex for the attacker it is about power and control. Sharing your experiences exemplifies the very meaning of Valor. [/quote] Mistake above, I meant, rape ISN'T about sex for the attacker

03-16-2006, 01:06 PM	#37
ArchAngel Gabriel Basic Member Nov 2005 America loved but have room for many friends Butch Photos 3,883 Rep Power: 71582821	I can't do it. Not yet. I will just say me, too. If anyone anywhere at any time needs help should you need it, get ahold of me. I will listen.

09-23-2007, 04:36 PM	#38
ELISHEBA Basic Member Aug 2007 ..... loving hoping living girl sister lesbian Photos 1,469 Blog Entries: 24 Rep Power: 71582805	I happened to me too I happened to me too...I've been in a long relationship with another women. She was and still is an alcoholic. When she got drunk she used me...forced me to make love to her...I hated being with her when she got drunk - she just wouldn't let me go. She abused me.... verbally and physically....It was a long nightmare...

09-24-2007, 08:24 PM	#40
Whispertome Basic Member Jan 2006 Home is where the heart is Loved and loving hym all woman, from the top of my head down to my painted toes Photos 6,924 Rep Power: 71582826	Hi....I look at my preivous post and know I could have said things a little more tactful??? sorry I was just so angry when I saw that post.. Peace __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode