Where do Daddies go?

[converse]

It is interesting that many will talk about daily growth, learning from others and from experience, and by doing so we acknowledge that there is never a time when there is nothing left to learn, and yet as a group- Daddies seem reluctant to admit to having any self doubt.

I sometimes think that a Daddy by hys very nature has stoic tendencies- someone who endures pain, fear or sadness without showing it. As though by acknowledging to others that we might not be infallible makes us some how seem less capable of fulfilling our role. I think that perhaps it is this need to appear “all knowing” that prevents many from asking for advice, opinions or support.

I also wonder if Daddies, who in general have such high expectations of themselves, are particularly harsh and judgemental of others with the same label- which would make asking questions as appealing as painting a large target on our chests.

So if we accept that we are not born knowing everything nor ever reach a place in our life when there is nothing left to learn, and that as a human being- a Daddy is fallible, and that confusion or questioning isn’t akin to being weak, do you think that we are able to provide a “fair" place on line- where a Daddy might venture to ask the questions and find support?

[Firedance]

I simply adore logic chains!!!

So... following yours...


So if we accept that we are not born knowing everything nor ever reach a place in our life when there is nothing left to learn, and that as a human being- a Daddy is fallible, and that confusion or questioning isn’t akin to being weak, do you think that we are able to provide a “fair" place on line- where a Daddy might venture to ask the questions and find support?

... Could that place be THIS thread?

(Optimistically hoping it WILL be)

[Hopelessromantic69]

It is interesting that many will talk about daily growth, learning from others and from experience, and by doing so we acknowledge that there is never a time when there is nothing left to learn, and yet as a group- Daddies seem reluctant to admit to having any self doubt.

I sometimes think that a Daddy by hys very nature has stoic tendencies- someone who endures pain, fear or sadness without showing it. As though by acknowledging to others that we might not be infallible makes us some how seem less capable of fulfilling our role. I think that perhaps it is this need to appear “all knowing” that prevents many from asking for advice, opinions or support.

I also wonder if Daddies, who in general have such high expectations of themselves, are particularly harsh and judgemental of others with the same label- which would make asking questions as appealing as painting a large target on our chests.

So if we accept that we are not born knowing everything nor ever reach a place in our life when there is nothing left to learn, and that as a human being- a Daddy is fallible, and that confusion or questioning isn’t akin to being weak, do you think that we are able to provide a “fair" place on line- where a Daddy might venture to ask the questions and find support?

First..big ass hug to you! Second, Myself just retiring from the Navy after 20 years..i feel like i have been in an emotional cave and can now work on who I am. I never saw myself as a daddy or put myself out there as one. I am learning with help from my partner to embrace the daddy part of me which I feel takes that special little girl in the heart of a wonderful healthy woman to bring it out in me. As a parent i cannot relate on a physical level in that dynamic i.e. dressing up, baby talk or play...major turn off's for me. I have questions of myself which are going to take some soul searching and questions for some other daddy that can relate to my dynamic in this area. This could end up being a good place for discussion.

[converse]

I simply adore logic chains!!!

So... following yours...



... Could that place be THIS thread?

(Optimistically hoping it WILL be)

Yes it could be. But I’ll make a generalisation: Daddies with a lot of experience “can’t be bothered” with all that “stuff”, and those just discovering that part of themselves or who are single are concerned that admitting to inexperience some how makes their claim to the label illegitimate.
So we will have to see…

[converse]

First..big ass hug to you! Second, Myself just retiring from the Navy after 20 years..i feel like i have been in an emotional cave and can now work on who I am. I never saw myself as a daddy or put myself out there as one. I am learning with help from my partner to embrace the daddy part of me which I feel takes that special little girl in the heart of a wonderful healthy woman to bring it out in me. As a parent i cannot relate on a physical level in that dynamic i.e. dressing up, baby talk or play...major turn off's for me. I have questions of myself which are going to take some soul searching and questions for some other daddy that can relate to my dynamic in this area. This could end up being a good place for discussion.


Your post made me smile when it immediately reminded me of a conversation with a very close friend who after spending 20 years in the navy and was just emerging to find hys place in the community said slightly disgruntled, after I laughed at a slight faux pas of hys, “well yeah while you were busy getting all this lifestyle experience I was in uniform protecting your damn ass!” so kudos to you.

The issue of a D/g-b dynamic and parenthood is an interesting one. It is easy to see how someone might have an adverse reaction to the dynamic if they are not immediately able to see a clear distinction between the traditional interchange that happens within this type of relationship and that of a parent/child.

I use the spelling babygrrl for a number of reasons, one of which is because this customary spelling is a means to indicate an acknowledgement that the person is not a girl as in child but is an adult and that the dynamic has nothing to do with ageplay. While there are some who have sexual fetishes around father/daughter role play, my knowledge of this is that it is more common in heterosexual relationships, and has absolutely no connection to the type of dynamic usually referred to when discussed within our own community. And we will find that those who identify as a babygrrl/boi- will state very clearly that when they use the term “Daddy” in their relationship, that there are absolutely no connotations implied regarding their biological father, and any thoughts of their parent within this context couldn’t be any further from their mind.

“Daddy” within the context discussed here, does not equal biological parent, but rather a figure that represents protector, nurturer and the closest we can get to unconditional love.

So if it is not about ageplay, how do we explain what you refer to as “dressing up, baby talk, playing”? As a Daddy one of our requirements, if wanted, is to provide a place where our grrl/boi is able to feel completely free, to find a space where all the trappings and responsibilities that come with adulthood are allowed to be temporarily banished. This is the space of innocence, untainted and unpolluted, where the wonderment of first smells, colour, sound, touch are rediscovered, where laughter and tears flow freely, where the moment is all that matters- with no concerns of the future or consequences, or awareness of possible implications or hidden agendas, where delight is found in the simplicity of play; it is the purity of simply being without any fear of being judged. For someone to allow themselves this space takes tremendous courage, it goes against everything that we have been taught and know we need to be in order to survive.

There is no weakness in anyone that can find that ‘little” place, in fact the opposite is true, there is strength, strength enough to let go and trust. And many of us feel honoured when that trust is imparted to us.

Thank you for adding to this thread, my personal experience is that being somebody’s Daddy can be one of the hardest roads we travel, extremely challenging and involves a lot of self examination – but the rewards are immeasurable. I wish you well on your journey.

[converse]

Strappin elsewhere posted asking the question whether being a babygrrl was justification for rude or discourteous behaviour (please forgive my paraphrasing Strap) and it got me thinking about protocols.

There are some with a connection to Leather who understand their particular relationship to be in keeping with the Old Guard tradition of Daddys (Tops) and boys (bottom), and where protocols are paramount, as an example (from The History of Leather Traditions By Guy Baldwin, M.S.):

“Tops and experienced bottoms should be accorded higher respect and deference unless and until they behave rudely--all are expected to observe rules of social courtesy-bad manners are inexcusable and can lower one's status in the Scene (thereby reducing access to the Knowledgeable People for information or play)

It is up to the Top or the experienced bottom to extend a hand to invite a handshake. (All touching is highly restricted during initial contact between strangers.) NEVER over-indulge in drugs or alcohol in public, or otherwise attract scornful attention to one's self--to do so brings dishonor

Tops should always have the first two opportunities to make verbal or physical contact,
Preliminary social contact should be on the formal side.

'Senior Persons' (Top or bottom) are not to be interrupted when in conversation.

Experience being equal, Tops lead the conversation.”

Obviously in this scenario, the answer to Straps question would be very simple, not only is there no justification for poor behaviour, but the behaviour itself would discredit the validity of the identity in others eyes.

However others operate their dynamic something akin to the indulgent benefactor, where there are no behavioural expectations. And somewhere between the two extremes are those perpetrating the white knight syndrome, and others who though called Daddy- are more what we would familiarly call “uncle”- the person who acts as a sounding board, providing gentle encouragement and guidance when sought. And then of course there are those whose dynamic, though based on any one of these models, has been adapted and adjusted to compliment other labels/beliefs that they may have. So with such a broad interpretation of what makes a Daddy/grrl-boi relationship, how would you answer the question: I don’t consider her/hym a Daddy because….

[converse]

For those who messaged me asking for suggestions on further online discussions, as a starter a couple of suggestions:

Other than the “critical” thread on this site, there is also theothers site, though just in its formative stages offers opportunities for D/g-b discussions simply by the very nature of its membership, and then of course there is the Fet site which if you have Sherlock Holmes investigative skills can lead you to some excellent discussions in threads such as the: Butch Daddy, Butch Dyke Daddies, butch/femme queers, Butches 4 Femmes only, Lesbian and Gay Daddy/girl, My opinion of a DaddyDom, Old School Butch & Femme – groups.

Just some of my initial thoughts

[converse]

Ok I’m not giving up on this thread just yet- we have tried ageplay, and when is a Daddy not a Daddy, now how about friendship …

Typically, a Daddy is only immediately recognized by another Daddy or by a grrl/boi, in the same way that it is only a Daddy that instantly sees the grrl/boi that lays beneath the adult persona. Sharing that type of mutual recognition creates a connection, not necessarily an attraction or even an interest, but a type of understanding.

There are certain personal attributes that a Daddy will describe as being innate, they will portray a particular type of confidence, and a sureness in their decision making but most evident is their tendency to want to protect/defend, particularly those who they perceive as the most vulnerable, and no one is more potentially vulnerable in their eyes than someone identifying as a grrl/boi.

This need to shield is appropriate if one is their Daddy, and looking for comfort is fitting if one is their grrl or boi; but how is that managed if there is no relationship, how are the boundaries maintained without an over developed sense of responsibility or feelings of dependency evolving. Can someone say I am a Daddy but not your Daddy, and in doing so suppress all tendencies that are a large part of who they are, and the grrl/boi can they prevent themselves from assigning expectations that should be reserved only for the person they call their Daddy.

Can you be a Daddy and maintain a friendship with a grrl/boi without ever stepping into the Daddy by proxy role, and if not, does it matter?

[Rowdy4u]

Can you be a Daddy and maintain a friendship with a grrl/boi without ever stepping into the Daddy by proxy role, and if not, does it matter?

Maybe a friendship would take on the characteristics of Uncle-niece/nephew.

[converse]

Maybe a friendship would take on the characteristics of Uncle-niece/nephew.

Yes, the Uncle/Unkle - how do you think that might differ? Is it simply a Daddy without the romantic connection or are there a whole other/different set of expectations? and can a grrl/boi have an Uncle/Unkle and a Daddy at the same time without any difficulties?

[converse]

I was reading something recently that made me wonder if a D/g dynamic can be sustained over a long period when the two are separated geographically. We know of the difficulties that those within a LDR have to deal with- but I wonder what, if any, issues that are particular to a D/g relationship make this kind of situation even harder.

Has anyone had/have a D/g LDR – and perhaps would like to offer some thoughts or advice?

[converse]

Someone sent me their story in a private message. They said I could copy and paste it into this thread, because it explains why for this person having a D/g LDR relationship was so hard- however due to personal reasons they didn’t wish to be identified. Part of their story follows:

Having a long distance Daddi is the hardest relationship I have been in because nights when I was afraid of the dark there is no Daddi there to turn on the night light because I am too afraid to get out of bed even, nobody there to make sure my pooh bear was in bed with me, no body to check for monsters under the bed or in the closet. I can say hy tried role playing that all of those things were done however for me it was never enough and left me feeling very empty.

It was harder than that because when hy did come home of course I was so excited to see him however he was tired from driving for 3 weeks and tried to be Daddi but I knew he was so tired and just wanted to relax so I spent a great deal of the week taking care of all of his needs which a babygrrl should be doing however there was little reciprocation.

After a while the babygrrl in me started to slip away. It was easier to be in the adult world all of the time and ignore the nagging needs of the innocence that makes me who I am.

This is just my story others may have found a way to make it work better. Maybe I just had a crappy Daddi the entire time. But I can say I will NOT do the LDR Daddi/grrl again. I need someone there when the tears fall, the lights go out, there is a monster under my bed and pooh is missing. Without the real connection I personally don't see how it works.

[Justin]

Great subject ....I will read it all and respond soon !!!

[persiphone]

because i'm a little girl.....i've had lots of butches (in fact just had this convo just last weekend) ask me about the ins and outs of this dynamic and what it means to be a Daddy. i tell them that "Daddy" is a feeling. if you FEEL like you are then you are. whether you go forward with it is up to you. and then they ask..."Well what does a Daddy do?" and i say that it depends on the relationship hy has with hys girl and what hy feels hy needs to be satisfied. and those things are a vast span of personal preferrences. and often they tell me that they aren't into crayons and such. and i say that's ok cuz i'm not either. i don't wanna be handed a coloring book cuz i'm not in that age group. but lots are and that's ok, too cuz lots of Daddys like that in a girl as well. then they ask me what kind of girl i am in this dynamic and i explain it to them. and then they say...."Well how is that different from this or that kind of relationship?" and i tell them that while each experience is personal and i can only speak for myself, i find that intimacy is deeper with a Daddy than with just a regular partner. i find that the trust is deeper, which of course makes the hurt almost unbearable when and if it goes south. i find that i can take off all the hats i wear one by one and be reduced to something much more simple mentally with a Daddy, which frees me to feel in very open state of mind. but "Daddy" is a feeling. it's not a suit you can take on and off. you don't just wake up one morning and go, "oh, I think I'll be a Daddy today." and often when i put it to butches like this i've gotten one of two responses: they either can't relate or they look back on their past relationships and recognize their Daddy tendencies under this new perspective and think..."hmmmmm...""" :P

i hope this helps :)

[persiphone]

Ok I’m not giving up on this thread just yet- we have tried ageplay, and when is a Daddy not a Daddy, now how about friendship …

Typically, a Daddy is only immediately recognized by another Daddy or by a grrl/boi, in the same way that it is only a Daddy that instantly sees the grrl/boi that lays beneath the adult persona. Sharing that type of mutual recognition creates a connection, not necessarily an attraction or even an interest, but a type of understanding.

There are certain personal attributes that a Daddy will describe as being innate, they will portray a particular type of confidence, and a sureness in their decision making but most evident is their tendency to want to protect/defend, particularly those who they perceive as the most vulnerable, and no one is more potentially vulnerable in their eyes than someone identifying as a grrl/boi.

This need to shield is appropriate if one is their Daddy, and looking for comfort is fitting if one is their grrl or boi; but how is that managed if there is no relationship, how are the boundaries maintained without an over developed sense of responsibility or feelings of dependency evolving. Can someone say I am a Daddy but not your Daddy, and in doing so suppress all tendencies that are a large part of who they are, and the grrl/boi can they prevent themselves from assigning expectations that should be reserved only for the person they call their Daddy.

Can you be a Daddy and maintain a friendship with a grrl/boi without ever stepping into the Daddy by proxy role, and if not, does it matter?


i like this question and i think this thought process should be explored further cuz i have benefitted tremendously from my non sexual relationships with my friends that are Daddys and my big brothers and i'm surrounded by them, literally. and here's why:

when i first entered into this dynamic it was like being blind for the first time and i was feeling my way around a room and couldn't find the exit and it was terrifying. once my eyes got accustomed to the dark, i encountered some murky relationships with some dark people that ID'd as Daddys and i could have been really, really damaged. i feel so lucky to be in the place i am today, but i digress. over the years, i've collected some big brothers...they were like a strong hand up in some very dark places and suddenly that dark room with no exit had more light in it and i think was able to make better choices, although still not as good as i could have.

there are two specific Daddys in my life that have a real impact on me. one is angelpdx, whom i call Big Daddy (or BD as it's evolved over the years) and we have been friends for several years now. she will tell me the things i don't wanna hear. she will swiftly, directly, and bluntly tell me what i'm doing wrong, what the other person is doing wrong, and how she expects me to change it. only, of course, if i ask her. :) she is someone that i can bounce off of in real life in literally all things. i like to cook for her and whomever she's dating on holidays and we make a point to spend time together. she is a safe place i can go and i love her very much. she's my Big Daddy and spawn adores her. she's not always in Daddy mode with me and i'm glad cuz we are friends outside of the D/g dynamic and she only Daddy mentors me if and when i ask for it so i don't feel like she's ever stepping over any boundaries or anything. it doesn't feel pushy or invasive. but....she IS a Daddy and i find that the good ones never are pushy or invasive.

the other one is Massive, whom i've been friends with for a few years now here. hy carries the official title of being my mentor all the time. when i explored being mentored after one failed D/g relationship after another, after feeling a couple Daddys out, i discovered that what i really needed in a Daddy mentor was stability. i needed someone that wasn't waivering in opinions or viewpoints. i needed someone that wasn't wishy washy. with Massive, i get to be a bratty teen without it being romanticized and that helped stop me from trying to get that from Daddys in romantic relationships that weren't good for me. after my last particularly bad encounter, i had to look at myself to see what needed changing so that i would stop entering into these harmful D/g relationships. so i've been able to really get to know myself in a healthy way that is unhindered cuz there is no sexual agenda. sometimes, Massive steps in as "Daddy". sometimes it's subtle and sometimes it RAWR! i have a tendency to overwork myself and then wanna stay up all night. so hy'll step up and make me go to bed. (i've gotten better ;) ) sometimes, hy'll step in if hy's present if hy feels, or if i feel, i'm being attacked in some way in this cyber world we share. however, one of the things i love about hym is there is never any riffs when i am partnered. hy's very good about protocols and manners and what's cool and what's not cool and it's just really awesome. i love hym very much and i feel very lucky to have such an amazing Daddy mentor.

so does it matter? i think so, yes. can there be friendships across the lines? absolutely. it's made a world of difference to me in this dynamic. i prefer to surround myself with positive people, so this dynamic should not be any different, which was why the constant failures were so troubling for me. having these platonic relationships with Daddys and Daddy types has really helped me to stop repeating cycles of bad choices. (oooooooooo! i'm a big girl now! :P )

[Massive]

In all honesty, I am deeply honoured that I can be a Daddy mentor to persi here and I've found that just because I can be 'Daddy' doesn't necessarily mean that I have to be the strong one at all times, because I know it does work both ways in any relationship. I'm proud to be a Daddy mentor and to show that it is possible to accept a person as they are, not as someone else wants them to be to make them feel special. We are all unique, and I'm just lucky enough to know some truly wonderful femmes in this lifetime. Persi is very special, so I'm even luckier in that regard to have her as my friend.
I believe being a gentle guide can work equally as well as taking control completely, it's just another perspective really. We all need both aspects in our lives IMHO.
Being a Daddy is important, and being a good Daddy who doesn't berate and make nasty comments is even more vital for me. I show the respect I wish to receive back in return, otherwise, well, it just couldn't work for me, there has to be respect, or else it isn't equal or fair on anyone else. After all, without the respect of other people in our dynamic, what do we have?

[ReDo]

Someone sent me their story in a private message. They said I could copy and paste it into this thread, because it explains why for this person having a D/g LDR relationship was so hard- however due to personal reasons they didn’t wish to be identified. Part of their story follows:

Having a long distance Daddi is the hardest relationship I have been in because nights when I was afraid of the dark there is no Daddi there to turn on the night light because I am too afraid to get out of bed even, nobody there to make sure my pooh bear was in bed with me, no body to check for monsters under the bed or in the closet. I can say hy tried role playing that all of those things were done however for me it was never enough and left me feeling very empty.

It was harder than that because when hy did come home of course I was so excited to see him however he was tired from driving for 3 weeks and tried to be Daddi but I knew he was so tired and just wanted to relax so I spent a great deal of the week taking care of all of his needs which a babygrrl should be doing however there was little reciprocation.

After a while the babygrrl in me started to slip away. It was easier to be in the adult world all of the time and ignore the nagging needs of the innocence that makes me who I am.

This is just my story others may have found a way to make it work better. Maybe I just had a crappy Daddi the entire time. But I can say I will NOT do the LDR Daddi/grrl again. I need someone there when the tears fall, the lights go out, there is a monster under my bed and pooh is missing. Without the real connection I personally don't see how it works.

I will step out of my own shadow and own that post as mine. I have been fighting a lot lately with my own inner self and my relationships from the past. I didn't want to own this post because it does bring up so much hurt. The person it is about isn't healthy for me at all yet she WAS an addiction my drug my Daddi fix. Yet looking back now I can see how damaging it really was.

Having a LDR for me is hard to begin with. I am a person who needs the strong connection and assurance that the other person is okay. My biggest fear in all the world is that something will happen to the person I love and care about and nobody will know to contact me and let me know. Yup to me that is even worse than not being able to find my pooh bear at night time.

So having a LDR Daddi who doesn't pick up the phone or who can't give hys best even when home wasn't working. Yet this person was that first Daddi and that makes it harder to let go of.

So if someone is thinking about having a LDR Daddi/grrl relationship communication i would say is the most important and when you are together physically use every second to its fullest.

[Massive]

I will step out of my own shadow and own that post as mine. I have been fighting a lot lately with my own inner self and my relationships from the past. I didn't want to own this post because it does bring up so much hurt. The person it is about isn't healthy for me at all yet she WAS an addiction my drug my Daddi fix. Yet looking back now I can see how damaging it really was.

Having a LDR for me is hard to begin with. I am a person who needs the strong connection and assurance that the other person is okay. My biggest fear in all the world is that something will happen to the person I love and care about and nobody will know to contact me and let me know. Yup to me that is even worse than not being able to find my pooh bear at night time.

So having a LDR Daddi who doesn't pick up the phone or who can't give hys best even when home wasn't working. Yet this person was that first Daddi and that makes it harder to let go of.

So if someone is thinking about having a LDR Daddi/grrl relationship communication i would say is the most important and when you are together physically use every second to its fullest.

LDR's of any kind are hard work and even more so when one side doesn't take their responsibilities seriously enough. Or even bother to take the time to stop and just say "Are YOU okay?" and then find a solution to that when it's obvious it isn't alright.
I was on the other end of the spectrum to you here, I was the Daddy who was left for about 6 months with no contact whatsoever, not even an offline message just to say what was going on with her, and yeah, she was my first babygirl...
I'm sorry you've had such a negative first experience being in a LDR and Daddi/grrl too, I wish I could say with someone with more experience it is easier, but unfortunately like any other relationship it takes commitment, open and honest communication no matter how hard it hurts to hear or say, patience and most importantly of all, an implicit trust in that person to do right by you.
I'm British and poly, both of my baby girls are in the US. So far there have yet to be any breakdowns in communication, I get ill fairly frequently, but I will always ensure they are the first two people I will contact to say, "sorry, I won't be online because ..." and being a mentor to another wonderful baby girl means I take time to make sure that she's happy and knows that no matter what, I'm there for her (as I've mentioned before earlier in this thread).
I hope you haven't given up on Daddi/grrl relationships based on this, I know it is hard to find someone who isn't just saying they're a Daddy because they liked being fussed over and won't reciprocate, but, there are good Daddi's out there, who want a babygrrl who they can devote the rest of their lives to taking care of in return.
Thank you for being honest ReDo, it's about the scariest damn thing ever to do in a place like here and I respect you all the more for this, take good care hun, you're a good soul *hugs* all the best for the future and remember, you're never alone, you're a part of the biggest family in the whole world!

[ReDo]

I hope you haven't given up on Daddi/grrl relationships based on this, I know it is hard to find someone who isn't just saying they're a Daddy because they liked being fussed over and won't reciprocate, but, there are good Daddi's out there, who want a babygrrl who they can devote the rest of their lives to taking care of in return.
Thank you for being honest ReDo, it's about the scariest damn thing ever to do in a place like here and I respect you all the more for this, take good care hun, you're a good soul *hugs* all the best for the future and remember, you're never alone, you're a part of the biggest family in the whole world!

Massive

I can say I have not given up on finding the right Daddi for me. It is a lot harder now though and I don't just give that part of me freely as if it doesn't matter because it does matter. Keeping that part of me well guarded is something that I have made my top priorety when talking with someone who might become a partner. I am honest about it and let it known that at some point I do need that aspect in the relationship however I can't just give it blindly.

Thank you for your kind words. I know inside I have so much to give to the right person. However looking back at my past relationships I worry if I will be able to find that right person and if I do will I be too afraid to give again? I know that I will give 100% again because it is just who I am but I know this time around it will be different. I will put my own self first and make sure that I never settle for less than I deserve again.

[Massive]

Massive

I can say I have not given up on finding the right Daddi for me. It is a lot harder now though and I don't just give that part of me freely as if it doesn't matter because it does matter. Keeping that part of me well guarded is something that I have made my top priorety when talking with someone who might become a partner. I am honest about it and let it known that at some point I do need that aspect in the relationship however I can't just give it blindly.

Thank you for your kind words. I know inside I have so much to give to the right person. However looking back at my past relationships I worry if I will be able to find that right person and if I do will I be too afraid to give again? I know that I will give 100% again because it is just who I am but I know this time around it will be different. I will put my own self first and make sure that I never settle for less than I deserve again.

*hugs* Always stay true to yourself and never stop believing that the one for you is out there, and you're welcome, I do understand and know how hard it is and can be at times. Be you and don't let anyone tell you to be anything else but you, you deserve to be treated like it's an honour just to be able to touch you and talk to you, because it is!
I meant what I said earlier, if you ever need to talk, I'm always around. Sometimes it's easier to talk to someone who isn't there because you can be honest without getting embarrassed and don't ever feel like you're alone either, okay?

[dillon62]

Hi,

I am new to the Daddy role and the dynamic in general. I still have lots of questions on how things work and on how to handle various situations. With that said, there has never been such excitment in my heart as when I here my babygirl's voice on the phone. Last night her stuffed animal was missing when she went to bed. She called me to tell me and I felt my heart sink knowing how close to tears she was. I told her to check under the bed and under the covers. While she checked I was thinking what if it is gone and how do we get another one and..... I never thought I would feel so much about a simple thing like a missing stuffed toy. After she found it and she fell asleep, I thought of myself as a new father. Full of love for his baby girl and worried about being a good papa. I never thought this would be me, but it does fit.

[dillon62]

Well 13 days later after my last post and I fined myself lost. I thought with all my heart that I had a babygirl to love. I was new to this relationhip and I just fell in love. How do you just recover when someone changes. I have had relationship breakup and recovered and moved on. But this loss is so much harder. In my head I can still hear her voice and it just makes me feel empty. To feel a childs love is so special and to know it is still there, even though the person does not want you for a relationship.
How do you forget a child. She said to me once, "you never leave me daddi?" and It just melted my heart. Tears came to my me just as they do now. I never want to leave her, never ever.
I can not ask anyone I know for help. But I need help. Nobody can understand.

[converse]

Well 13 days later after my last post and I fined myself lost. I thought with all my heart that I had a babygirl to love. I was new to this relationhip and I just fell in love. How do you just recover when someone changes. I have had relationship breakup and recovered and moved on. But this loss is so much harder. In my head I can still hear her voice and it just makes me feel empty. To feel a childs love is so special and to know it is still there, even though the person does not want you for a relationship.
How do you forget a child. She said to me once, "you never leave me daddi?" and It just melted my heart. Tears came to my me just as they do now. I never want to leave her, never ever.
I can not ask anyone I know for help. But I need help. Nobody can understand.

dillion I’m sorry I haven’t been able to find the time to respond to your postings earlier – but after reading your recent words I wanted to try to find a little space in my currently crowded brain. However, for the sake of clarity and given that work has taken ownership of the majority of my brain cells, I do ask that you will indulge me in allowing me to use hy and grrl without assuming that in doing so that I am disregarding those who use female pronouns or whose love is for a boi…. So with that indulgence, I would like to offer my thoughts…

We read so much about the abandoned grrl, the orphanages, where the pain of suddenly having to cope without their Daddy is written with such intensity that we cant help but want to console and make it “all better”, however in our rush to want to stop the tears from falling- we often forget about the Daddy.

If a Daddy’s first thought in the morning and last thought at night is of hys grrl; if the Daddy does without so that hys grrl doesn’t have to; if the Daddy imagines hys grrl’s future before thinking of hys own; if hys grrls tears cut deeper into hys heart than any knife could; if hy wants to be a better person for her; if hy would choose to risk her anger (and possible rejection) rather than allow her to risk being harmed; if hy faces hys fears and hides hys pain to keep sadness away from her doorstep – then the Daddy has found a part of hymself that will be forever changed.

Thoughts, emotions, behaviours have all been touched and altered; hy has discovered that hy is not only willing but also capable of truly putting another’s welfare before hys own.
But what then, when the reason and the want for doing so leaves?

Although within this type of dynamic we can come close to understanding unconditional love- we as Daddys must never be mistaken in thinking that this is a type of parental role, and always remember that the grrl is an adult with options, choices and the ability to act independently at any given time; and although our instinct is to fear for her when she steps out of our reach, we must understand and respect her wishes if she chooses to walk away.

Learning to let go, as hard as it is, is just one of the things that as Daddys we must come to terms with. She is ours only for as long as she so wishes it. Anything amazing to hold will leave us feeling empty when its gone, and all we can do is carry on- aware of the part that is missing, but also with a new sense of who we are and what we are capable of.

dillion, although perhaps now you don’t realise it, soon you will come to see what an incredible gift has been left with you – it is no longer about your grrl but its now about you. You are a Daddy who will one day find the grrl who has been looking for you.

Stay strong.

[dillon62]

Thank you for the words of incouragement.

[SweetJane]

Converse, I wanted to step in here and ask a naive question. You know that I have the utmost respect for you as I do for Persi who IDs as a baby girl (which, frankly, surprised me). I know that some of our identifications and sexual dynamics are more than just roles in the bedroom, which I have seen demonstrated here and in other threads. It's an attitude, a self concept, and is enhanced by whatever is our complement. I also know that some roles are just that roles, as when some people ID as into BDSM but have no idea what the behaviors, protocols, and responsibilities are.

That said, I plunge on with my naive question(s). From reading the descriptions of behaviors of baby girls, it seems these women are fragile (sleeping alone, stuffed animals, night lights, fears of the dark, etc.). The word parent was used once or twice here and that seemed consistent with how to deal with this. BUT this isn't about parenting. So my first question is where does a strong woman enter into this? How can you be strong in the outside world and then become a "child" at home (and we're not talking about sexual role playing here)? Does this reduce the baby girl to something "less"?

Next question.... some of the daddy behaviors seem to be just strong "male" caring. This is the description many of us of my generation in the hetero world had of a good male partner--someone we could rely on and draw strength from, someone we could release the cares of the world to when we were home, someone we called when things at work fell about though we were strong there, someone who just loved us and nurtured us. (Never found that completely, by the way... even in that world.) Does this have to be daddy/girl behavior?

Last question....what about older baby girls (meaning older than their daddies)? Is there a dynamic for them?

Yes, I'm naive...but I am so open to learning and understanding.

[converse]

Jane, as always it is good to hear from you. As you have addressed these questions directly to me- I will attempt to answer as I can only do- and that is from my own perspective, based on my personal experience and from what I have known through conversations with others. So if you can accept that this is in “my opinion only”, Im happy to try to tackle these questions…

where does a strong woman enter into this? How can you be strong in the outside world and then become a "child" at home …Does this reduce the baby girl to something "less"?

Can you remember the first time you tasted chocolate, or your first ice cream cone; the moment when you suddenly realised that you could swim, or that you were riding your bicycle without the training wheels; a time when you laughed just because you were happy or cried because you were sad – without a thought of who might be watching or what they might think. A time when every emotion and feeling was real and you felt safe to express it; when you believed all that you were told and didn’t know what it was to not trust?

This is the world of a child; some of us might have vague memories of that time, while others might have never really known it to begin with, or perhaps dealt with circumstances that caused that time to end prematurely. For a few, they have been able to keep that part of themselves - hidden deep below layers of the responsibilities of adulthood. This part of someone finds no purpose in the introspective because wonderment, excitement and passion is able to be found in the everyday things- I think it is important to understand that being able to access this part of who you are does not suggest that suddenly the person becomes totally dependant and devoid of any adult developed skills; a grrl/boi identity it is not a type of role play which can be stepped in or out of but rather is an intrinsic part of the whole- although certain situations may require this part to be veiled, it is my experience that it is always present.

the daddy behaviors seem to be just strong "male" caring. This is the description many of us of my generation in the hetero world had of a good male partner--someone we could rely on and draw strength from…. Does this have to be daddy/girl behavior?

A Daddy immediately recognises the grrl/boi and is the counter; a Daddy not only creates the space that allows the grrl/boi to feel completely safe, but embraces the person that she/hy is allowing to come forth. It is more than offering protection or a shoulder, and more still than simply nurturing – it is the fundamental understanding that for hym, the grrl/boi has placed an unshakable trust in hys willingness and ability to never let her fall.


what about older baby girls (meaning older than their daddies)? Is there a dynamic for them?

Age or size is irrelevant what matters is that Want and Capability must go hand in hand for both the Daddy and the grrl/boi. For example, a simple sense of feeling responsible without a strong desire to be so, or wanting to trust without the required capacity, would limit the dynamic to being in name only.

It has been my experience that it is only the strongest who know how to let go. For the grrl/boi, it takes incredible fortitude and bravery to hand over trust to the degree that is required in this kind of dynamic; and for the Daddy, a certain level of tenderness is needed to be able to recognise the gift that is being given: Two qualities that are often missed by those who are simply observing.

I could discuss at length the value of the imagination and the healing power of play, not to mention the worth of humility or transforming effect that placing another’s life ahead of your own can have. There are Daddys and DaddyDoms and bratty and wanting to please behaviours – the structure within the dynamic can be extremely varied, but the constant is the intensity of the connection – and to explain that, I’m afraid I’m at a loss for words.

[L.A. Femme]

This is a really really great thread. I am subscirbing and may return with comment.

[persiphone]

Converse, I wanted to step in here and ask a naive question. You know that I have the utmost respect for you as I do for Persi who IDs as a baby girl (which, frankly, surprised me). I know that some of our identifications and sexual dynamics are more than just roles in the bedroom, which I have seen demonstrated here and in other threads. It's an attitude, a self concept, and is enhanced by whatever is our complement. I also know that some roles are just that roles, as when some people ID as into BDSM but have no idea what the behaviors, protocols, and responsibilities are.

That said, I plunge on with my naive question(s). From reading the descriptions of behaviors of baby girls, it seems these women are fragile (sleeping alone, stuffed animals, night lights, fears of the dark, etc.). The word parent was used once or twice here and that seemed consistent with how to deal with this. BUT this isn't about parenting. So my first question is where does a strong woman enter into this? How can you be strong in the outside world and then become a "child" at home (and we're not talking about sexual role playing here)? Does this reduce the baby girl to something "less"?

Next question.... some of the daddy behaviors seem to be just strong "male" caring. This is the description many of us of my generation in the hetero world had of a good male partner--someone we could rely on and draw strength from, someone we could release the cares of the world to when we were home, someone we called when things at work fell about though we were strong there, someone who just loved us and nurtured us. (Never found that completely, by the way... even in that world.) Does this have to be daddy/girl behavior?

Last question....what about older baby girls (meaning older than their daddies)? Is there a dynamic for them?

Yes, I'm naive...but I am so open to learning and understanding.


LOL! why surprised?

well i spose i'm not "fragile" in the traditional sense. i don't sleep with stuffed animals and i don't mind sleeping alone cuz i hog the covers. mebbe it appears i'm too strong willed to be a little girl? cuz i am muhahahahahaaaa!!! just ask hym *points* ok ok, all kidding aside....i think it takes a tremendous amount of strength to be a little girl. and it takes a lot of strength to submit. PS~.....hy is not my father. just sayin'.

now i don't have an outside strong woman face and then an at home little girl self. no. i am me all the time. sometimes one surfaces more than the other but i am always a little girl and i am always a woman. you can ask anyone that has met me in real life how that manifests itself. niether one has on and off switches. oh, and lots of it is sexual. LOTS. cuz it's haawwwttttt

i think there is a distinct difference albeit perhaps subtle nuances, at times, between a Daddy and a partner that is just exhibiting "male" caring. first off, because it's sexual and romantic, and second because there is more substance with a Daddy and (this is strictly my experience only) they seem to be much more observant or mebbe aware is the word i'm looking for i dunno. there is a lot of effort put into treating the girl as special (and if there isn't run for the hills i learned this the hard way) and there is a steadyness...a stoic~ness...a confidence....it's just not like other people.

last answer....i once had a Daddy that was younger than me (considerably). it was great till hys age got in the way.

[honeypie]

although I don't do the daddy thing, I was involved in a sado-masochistic relationship ( all in the vein of exploration and figuring out what I liked and who I was), and I agree with Persiphone in that the submissive role requires strength. In my short jaunt in the S/M world I came to understand that as the masochist I was the one really in control....only with My permission...!

[Rhoda]

bump.....

[Darbonaire]

Ahhh, how nice to stumble upon this thread.....thanks for the "bump", Rhoda.

I shall have to return when I have time to read the different posts. I shall return, I am certain !

May you all have a wonderful day !

Jonathan