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SmoothButch
02-19-2003, 04:01 AM
Thought I might give this a shot.......

Any Butches' TG ...TS..
not currently taking T that are shaving to attempt to grow any facial hair....out there?

curious as to the results if any.

CalifBadBoy03
02-19-2003, 08:55 AM
Hey there Smooth....

I dont take "T", and have had a moustache for a very long time, and a small goutee---although I prefer clean shavin, so I do shave it every day--however if I didnt my moustache would definitely be full..and dark...

I dont shave to grow it though...No need too, Ive had facial hair since way back...

SmoothButch
02-19-2003, 09:15 AM
Hey Cruise...

How did you get it to grow, did you start out by shaving everyday? Also, how long did it take you to get noticeable results for the goatee?

I've just recently started to shave and so far the only thing I've managed to get is just a little bit on my chin (verry little) but some.

CalifBadBoy03
02-19-2003, 09:41 AM
Hey Smooth...

Actually it started when I was about 12 getting facial hair, mostly a dark moustache....of course I started shaving when I was about 15 or so, and if I allow it to grow out now, there is alot more facial hair....My mom always tells me I was born with a hell of alot of male hormones......which is probably true in many ways....

SmoothButch
02-19-2003, 09:48 AM
lol......

well if alot of peach fuzz count's guess I would have it made

I'll keep trying....
Thanks Bud

- Smooth

CalifBadBoy03
02-19-2003, 09:59 AM
LOL Smooth--Keep shaving the peach fuzz eventually you'll grow more hair, and it will become more coarse....

SmoothButch
02-19-2003, 10:22 AM
Yep...uh huh

( scratching the few on my chin)

and if that doesn't work Cruise...there's always "Just For Men"....

LMAO...
* thinking I need to change the subject now*

- Smooth

Mugsy
02-19-2003, 03:02 PM
I've always had a fuzzy upper lip but in the past few years a small forest has started sprouting on its own on my chin & in the sideburn area. At first there were just a couple and I handled those with tweezers but now I shave every other day or so since there are more. Somewhere along the line I also sprouted a small patch of chest hair just above the cleavage region *a former gf pointed it out to me one night while basking in the afterglow, lol*

razor tip: Go with the Gillette Mach III

youngstud
02-19-2003, 03:13 PM
hey, cool thread.....

i'm ftm and gonna start t soon, but even before i tried to grow some sorta facial hair. i get none on my chin or upper lip and i don't have noticeable peach fuzz, but my hair did get coarser on the sideburn since i get my hair trimmed at a barber.....and they even out the sideburns for me.

sometimes i'll get a few ingrown hairs there and it takes about a month for them to really show up- i get them down to my earlobe, almost, but they're very thin and fine...and while they're noticeable, they don't exactly look like real sideburns. so i have to shave them every few days, so my natural sideburns look even, and like actual sideburns...i don't notice any more hair, but my skin has grown more coarse from it. your hair grows faster when you keep shaving it or cutting it.

other than that, absolutely no trace of hair on my chest except for the little happy trail...

i tried to grow some more hairs but they ain't that dark and they're sparse, so we'll see what happens on t.

SmoothButch
02-19-2003, 03:45 PM
Hey
Congrats on the T YoungStud ( I'm thinking what's the norm, like six months before any noticable facial hair) I'm not sure...
anyways I'm sure you'll be getting more then enough soon.
Good Luck *S*

* as I continue to scratch my chin * lol

Mugsy,

Yea, I just bought a new Gillette Mach III Turbo

I've also nicked myself a couple of times with it pretty good, before I was using a single blade.....I'm getting the hang of it now. Anyways, yea just about everything I use is from Gillette.

Thx for the tip, bud

- Smooth

kundawg
03-20-2003, 07:10 PM
for myself, I haven't started T yet, will in the next few months though, but I have had a goattee and stache since November. After my name change last fall, I let it grow out instead of shaving it everyday (been doing that since like 11/12).
I use to pluck as a nervous habit, so I'm shocked at how thick and full it grows. Course, just below my nose, where that ridge is on yer face, I don't have anything but really light blonde hair that is pretty sparse too. But everyone tells me it looks good, and I like how it looks. On a recent trip, I met lots of bio guys, many who are happy to just get a few scraggly hairs that are dark enough to be noticable, so just remember not all guys can grow a thick beard. I know realizing that fact made me much happier with what I have now (though I admit I'm hoping it will grow in darker on the rest of my face after I start T)
Best of luck man.
K

bit
03-21-2003, 04:22 AM
I understand that Rogaine works. You would want to be pretty careful using it on your face though.

If you have PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome) one of the symptoms is facial hair growth.

There are estrogens for sale in the herbal supplement aisles these days, so maybe there are also androgens?

I keep seeing commercials for Testosterol-- meant to restore a man's flagging testosterone production. Dunno if it would stimulate natural T levels to rise for a butch.

The kinds of steroids weight lifters and body builders take can sometimes promote hair growth.

Maybe someone else has more ideas to add...?

Good luck, y'all!!

Stevie B
03-24-2003, 07:37 PM
I just got some good info on the FTM board (here at butch-femme.com) from a femme called "HavUSeenMyLipstick". She told me about a new andro formula her partner uses called I-AD, which is testosterone-1, a natural androgen produced in both male and female bodies.

This is not a steriod--steroids are synthetic 'mones which are very dangerous. It's the real thing. You take it orally in pill form and it is a highly potent form of T.

It's made by the Ergopharm company, the same chemists who have discovered all the new andros: DHEA, androtestodione, 4-AD, and now I-AD. I-AD is reported to be the most potent, and the best part is that it doesn't convert to estrogen or cause water-weight gain. Of course it does have it's side effects, primarily upset stomach and a need to urinate often. You have to take it with a full meal and lots of fluids.

The people that have used it for 6 months say that it works: you're voice drops and you grow facial hair. The bodybuilders say it's highly effective for building muscle.

Best of all, it's sold over the counter and you don't need a prescription or a f'***n letter from a shrink, and it's cheaper than T.

I'm going to start taking it in two weeks.

HavUSeenMyLpstik
03-24-2003, 09:21 PM
Hello folks,

This is the same information I gave to Stevie B. Our experiences with any of these products are our own, and should you chose to use them, your experience may differ greatly.

This website below has a list of supplement reviews, explanations of what the product is, and their side effects. If you look to the left of the home page and scroll down, click on the links for "bodybuilding supplements 1 and 2". You will see information on DHEA, 1-AD, Tribulus, and many Andro products.

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/

This website below is one of the sites where you can buy the 1-AD product, although there are several out there that have it available online. I think buying online is much less expensive than paying retail prices. If you fluxuate with the quantity of dosage and cycle your use, it can cost about the same as T, give or take.

http://www.supplementcentral.com/

Best,

Hav

Stevie B
03-27-2003, 01:28 PM
I start using I-AD in six days, when UPS drops off the package. I'll let you know how it feels, what happens. I'm going to start with one pill, 3 times a day.

chocobutch
03-30-2003, 04:22 PM
Good luck, Stevan, and be careful! Let us know how it works.

Stevie B
04-02-2003, 02:27 PM
Took the first I-AD pill an hour ago...no upset stomach.

I ate a bagel w/pnut bttr first, then pill, then two HUGE glasses of juice drink, almost a pint of fluid. And no problems.

If I have have any cramps, it can probably be fixed with Pepcid, which cures all my stomach problems--and I'm prone to gastric problems.

It'll be a week before I see any differences, if there are any.

Stevie B
04-03-2003, 10:29 AM
So far I haven't had any upset stomach taking I-AD; taken it with food (not necessarily alot of food) and large glasses of water or juice.

No hair loss, although I have tingling in the scalp everytime I take it; so I'm a little worried about hair loss, though I haven't seen any yet.

Noticeable increase in sex drive, which is the opposite of what the company literature says. Ergopharms says I-AD may result in loss of sex drive, but that's probably only in men who have so much testosterone already.

The increase in sex drive is not to the 'out of control' level that people on T report; makes me wonder if alot of that isn't psychosuggestive in the first place.

No drop in the voice yet. Bummer. I hope I see results by the end of next week.

Stevie B
04-03-2003, 10:57 AM
I haven't had to pee excessivly either; normal urine production and no burning or other sensations. So far, none of the side effects that the company lit suggested.

susan
04-03-2003, 03:18 PM
A little consumer advocacy here. Products sold as Supplements do not have to go through rigorous testing on humans like drugs do.

Some of these supplements have caused deaths and side effects that are cancerous down the line. Many of these products have been taken off the market only after many serious illnesses have resulted.

Do not be so quick to jump on these things before the general public has tried them out for you. Don't be a guinea pig in the search for a little body hair. Companies are out to make MONEY off of your desires, regardless of what they might do to you in the long run.

Just because a product is 'natural' doesn't mean it is good for you.

Buyer beware.

Jo
04-03-2003, 03:27 PM
The same exact thing is happening to me. It started about a year and a half ago. I'm not complaining, although the facial hair is something I'm not into so I do remove it. I don't shave because I dont' want it to be darker or more coarse.

It's nice to know I can - but right now it isn't for me.

Did you ever find out what the chest hair was from?

Stevie B
04-03-2003, 04:06 PM
Susan,

Thanks for the word of warning, but I'm not going to take this stuff for any extended length of time. I only plan to take a 20 day supply (one bottle). Then I will switch to the Adrogel whichh is being prescribed for me by a doctor at the Callen-Lorde Health Center. That is of course, if my health insurance will cover it under my prescription plan, so that it would only cost me $20. If not, it's $160 dollars for the Androgel and I don't have that much.

I'm only using this to lower my voice, after which I plan to stop using all this shit immediately. I don't like putting this stuff in my body, and that includes 'real' testosterone. It feels like a foreign substance that doesn't belong in my body, but I'm willing to do it for the sake of this one change.

I just want to lower my voice. I'm not asking alot.

Stevie B
04-04-2003, 12:28 AM
It's been a little over 30 hours since I started I-AD and, folks, it works. I've only taken 4 doses and it is having a strong effect on my voice. It's definitely going lower. My voice is cracking alot, it kind of thins out at times. But when it comes back, it's lower and deeper than before.

I'm really relieved and happy. I'll probably take the rest of the pills (about 20 days) and then call it quits.

Jo
04-04-2003, 04:12 AM
Wow Stevie congrats!

Keep us up on new developments. (b)

chocobutch
04-04-2003, 05:03 PM
Wow! I can't believe it has happened so fast. Are you recording your voice every day to hear the difference?

I heard it takes a few months of T to really hear a difference in your voice. If this A-D stuff is so much quicker, I wonder why more people don't use it?

Stevie B
04-05-2003, 06:44 AM
The change began to happen immediately, but the rate of change is still gradual. I keep track of it by testing the lowest note that I can sing, which is the open A string on the guitar. Before I-AD, it was not audible; now, I can sing it audibly, and I can even sing the open E string, wihich I couldn't do before. Also, it has shaved a few notes off the top of my range.

The voice goes up and down a bit, because it hasn't settled into it's new range yet. But that will happen soon enough.

It does take a couple of months for the voice to drop completely, and how low it goes depends on genetics, not T.

Stevie B
04-05-2003, 01:36 PM
My voice has dropped significantly. I recorded a new greeting on my telephone answering service, and it's noticeably lower than the old one (which I have saved on another line). The difference in just 3 days is amazing!!!

Stevie B
04-06-2003, 12:27 PM
I'm continuing this thread over in body mods, since that's more of what it's about for me, and since I hate shaving. Come along if you want.

SmoothButch
04-18-2003, 02:41 PM
In an attempt to gain facial hair............W/O the use of of "T"

I have been shaving for the past couple of month's...to try and stimulate hair growth on my face.

I have since stopped shaving my upper lip...and I do have some light hair growing there. I also have some on my chin.....

What i have done recently to make the hair appear more darker , thicker and more noticable .....is I just went out and bought.....Just For Men....Moustache and Beard coloring gel.

I applied it and now my "stache" is more noticeable than before.

I've only done one application so far, but it works and it does look realistic.

I also ( for work issues........if any ever arise) bought a facial hair bleaching kit......in case I need to dye my facial hair.....without having to shave it all off. Because it does even for a little bit of hair....it takes me awhile to grow it.

- Smooth

Stevie B
04-18-2003, 05:16 PM
Good tip on the Just for Men beard color. I have alot of hair on the side of my face. It gets rather long so I have to shave it once in a while. However, it's blond, so the coloration will make it stand out. I might do that for my drag acts.

ainu
05-06-2003, 02:05 PM
Hey all,
I am a trans id'ed butch here and I knew there had to be a way to not "take" T to get a lower voice... sounds great that the pills work and then just stop taking them. after the voice changes. This is exactly what I have been looking for. Thanks for posting your results as they have been happening!

dru

Stevie B
05-07-2003, 06:17 PM
I used I-AD for 7 days, and my voice dropped significantly.(I also had clittoral enlargement, by the way). After I stopped taking it, the T was still affecting my body for 2 weeks. My voice went back up to about half way between the lowest point on T and my original voice.

But just taking T isn't enough. You have to learn to work with your new voice, learn how to make it sound rich, full and consistent. You will have to use your throat muscles and diaphragm differently.

The main difference is that you will have to open up you throat and mouth more to let that big sound out. You may have to push with more wind.

I may take T again later to drop it some more, but I'm happy with the results I got so far. If you really want to concentrate on having a nice, low voice, I recommend doing it in stages, learning how to work with your voice each time.

ainu
05-11-2003, 06:06 PM
Interesting. So the main effects were temporary but there were some permanent voice changes that stayed? This sounds very excellent, seems like you have some control over how low your voice goes. Thanks for the advice re: working diaphram and throat muscles, I hadn't really thought about that. Seems I have some more studying to do before I pop any pills. How did you work on that? Did you just experiment? or did you learn exercises somehwhere?
Thanks,
dru

Stevie B
05-12-2003, 10:43 AM
Dru:

I took singing lessons many years ago and learned how sound is produced through different parts of the upper body, primarily the forehead, facial bones, nose, mouth, larynx (throat), chest, back and diapraghm.

The basics are that you have a 'head voice' and a 'chest voice'. The head voice, which includes the forehead, facial bones, nose, mouth and larynx, produces your high notes. The chest voice, including the larynx, shoulders, chest, and back, produces your low notes. You need the diapraghm more for the chest voice. It takes more wind to produce lower notes.

Both men and women use both voices to produce their vocal sounds. Using T will thicken the vocal chords, but you also have to learn to shift your vocal production to your chest voice, so that it will sound deep and smooth. If you continue to rely on your head voice, you will get that "chipmunk" voice that so many trans men have.

Photo Guy
11-24-2004, 05:15 PM
I have read through this posting and have enjoyed the conversations between all the individuals.

I have read through both sites noted above: http://www.supplementcentral.com/ and http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/index.htm

Per the Supplement Central site, After January 20th you will no longer be able to purchase pro-hormones, so the countdown begins. I have yet to read anything like this on the Body Building for You site. So, I'm not sure if this is a marketing tool or is it the real McCoy.

Re: Shaving to induce hair growth. I am of Native American ancestry. Not by much, but normally I have not had much hair growth in the last ten years since my hysterectomy. I do wonder how much difference T or 1-AD one would have to consume to counter any estrogen that though who have not had removal of ovaries where estrogen is produced.

Of course, with T-shots or any over-the-counter medications for production of hair growth and decreasing ones voice, I do hope that a medical professional has been monitoring you. I have a wonderful friend who has been on T-shots for the last year and he has been doing great. He has been monitored medically because each person who has T-shots is at risk for all the hormone related illnesses as a Bio-Male.

I have a Nurse Practioner that is excellent in regards to TG & FTM issues. She is non-biased and just wants her patients to be healthy in regards to taking T-shots or any supplementals from over the counter.

All I can say is "Buyer Beware". Be safe in your endeavors to be the person you are on the inside and out.

DogWeasel
11-24-2004, 05:28 PM
I just have to say this because if I don't it will drive me nuts ... shaving will NOT affect hair growth in any way. It will not make the hairs darker, nor will it make them come back faster, nor does it stimulate growth. The hairs one shaves are dead. Suggesting that is does is no different than suggesting that a woman with long hair who trims the ends off somehow affects the follicles and her hair grows faster.

What does happen is this: if you have previously plucked, you will be surprised by how much hair you have because now you are removing it all at once; the whiskers will feel more like stubble because they have been cut off and have a sharp edge on the outside; and it will seem like they grow faster as opposed to when you pluck because they do - plucking removes the hairs at the root and it takes much longer for it to come back, growing from under the skin - shaving takes it off much more superficially, so the hair is right there at the edge of the skin.

As for my experience, I started shaving just because ... and I ended up with a lot more thick stubble than I expected, visable when I didn't shave for a few days. It was an affirming process for me that actually helped me decide to start "T". And be careful, guys - most of the stuff that is meant to affect hormones if VERY hard on the liver - if you damage your liver in any way you are screwed - there are lots of medications you cannot take (T being one) - aside from the many health issues that come along with limited liver function.

squidge63
11-24-2004, 05:33 PM
I have been shaving since i was 14, had a little hair growth earlier than that though... so its almost 27 yrs i have shaved.. can grow a full beard, and recently have just grown out the goatee and stache.. the hair has always been thick coarse and black, although now it is a lovely mix of balck and white...
I have pcos so i do have more T than most women, but that doesnt bother me, plus anytime the docs have tried to give me female hormones i last on them 2 weeks before they make me ill, so they have given up trying to give me them... even without the raised T the docs have said that i would naturally have been hairy for the amount of coverage i have on my body....

I got myself the Quattro razor and i love it, best shave i have ever had...

Drifter
11-24-2004, 05:59 PM
Thanks for the info Tyler...Always shaved..but never touched the the upper lip..Guess I should shave it, any suggestions on a good razor?

Drifter