What is this?

[ascarletpimpernel]

I know it's clear enough, a lesbian is a woman who loves women, a butch who goes for butches is a fag, I've gathered.

What is a femme who goes for other femmes? Is that a lipstick lesbian? Or is there a different term for it?

Sorry for the naivete, I'm still new.

[CalypsoTheNymph]

That is my understanding of a lipstick lesbian .... :) :)

[princess_pottymouth]

I "femme" who goes for other "femmes" is referred to as a "porn star"

I am an asshole! Sorry!

- potty

[chey]

Lipstick Femme

Definition: A lipstick lesbian is a woman who loves other women, but also loves her clothes and makeup and shoes. She tends to dress on the femmy side. ..Attraction to/for is perfectly normal,if this is what draws you to a more femme girl....
any other info..try going here;...
http://lesbianlife.about.com/cs/comingout/g/Femme.htm

hope this helps...



I know it's clear enough, a lesbian is a woman who loves women, a butch who goes for butches is a fag, I've gathered.

What is a femme who goes for other femmes? Is that a lipstick lesbian? Or is there a different term for it?

Sorry for the naivete, I'm still new.

[Concrete_Angel]

I think when a femme who goes for another femme is can be called her PREFERENCE. :)

Do we really need a label for every preference??

I hope p_pm is kidding.. if not, I would label that rude (y)

CA~

[msdemeanor]

I'll probably get a slew of shit for saying this, but what the hell.

MY definition of femme includes a primary attraction to masculine energy. A female-bodied homosexual with feminine tendencies who is attracted to the same is a lipstick lesbian, or a feminine lesbian, but is not a femme. Because a femme may or may not identify as a lesbian, one cannot substitute the terms lipstick lesbian or feminine lesbian for femme. In my little world, there is not such thing as "femmes who are only into other femmes".

Other people will have other definitions, but the OP is asking for opinions, so there's mine.

[Concrete_Angel]

I'll probably get a slew of shit for saying this, but what the hell.

MY definition of femme includes a primary attraction to masculine energy. A female-bodied homosexual with feminine tendencies who is attracted to the same is a lipstick lesbian, or a feminine lesbian, but is not a femme. Because a femme may or may not identify as a lesbian, one cannot substitute the terms lipstick lesbian or feminine lesbian for femme. In my little world, there is not such thing as "femmes who are only into other femmes".

Other people will have other definitions, but the OP is asking for opinions, so there's mine.

I agree 100000%. I should have replaced the word, FEMME with FEMININE!! I think of femme as a GENDER in of it itself that is attracted to butches/masculine energy, as well. UGH. I detest these moments of mine :o

As for getting $hit over an opinion, I don't think one ever gets that if they state an opinion with tact..which you did ;)

CA~

[Sunhawke]

I think of femme as a GENDER in of it itself that is attracted to butches/masculine energy, as well.
How does attraction determine Gender? If butch is, by the same token, a gender and is only attracted to femmes, then where do me and my partner fit in? Is our gender "fag"?I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, because we both ID as Genderqueer butch. I am just asking for an expansion on your opinion.

[msdemeanor]

Sunhawke, that's a question that always has be banging my head against the wall in frustration. In much the same way that females can be "Ms", "Miss", or "Mrs", but males are always "Mr", those of us on the feminine side have a number of different labels to pick from, while those of you on the masculine side have "butch".

[Sunhawke]

Sunhawke, that's a question that always has be banging my head against the wall in frustration. In much the same way that females can be "Ms", "Miss", or "Mrs", but males are always "Mr", those of us on the feminine side have a number of different labels to pick from, while those of you on the masculine side have "butch".
Yeah...it is kinda limiting...we can add all kinda of modifiers to it, but it's still "butch"...*sigh* And what is "butch" is open to the interpretation of the user. But then again, so can "femme". I have a friend who claims to be femme, but she's very manly, and dresses and acts what I would call "butch", but she's bi, and I think she figures biomen want their Bi women to be femme... I don't know...it has been the topic of many of our conversations. (She wears the "standard " butch wardrobe:baseball cap, Tee shirt, jeans, and birkenstocks. Her parents gave her a very nice tool set for her birthday. )LOL :P

[Concrete_Angel]

How does attraction determine Gender? If butch is, by the same token, a gender and is only attracted to femmes, then where do me and my partner fit in? Is our gender "fag"?I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, because we both ID as Genderqueer butch. I am just asking for an expansion on your opinion.

No worries, I can expand without arguing. :)

There is a LOT of duscussion in BF over roles and such and definitions of Butch, Femme, Stone or not. For me, a FEMME is a feminine woman who is exclusively attracted TO Butches or masculine energy, exclusively. There is no set *roles* for the butch or femme in my world, but a femme is typically DIFFERENT than a feminine woman in that way.. attraction to butches. Attraction doesn't determine gender. How you FEEL about your attraction and who you are, as a person, does. A FEMME feels that attraction. A butch who is attracted to other butches, by my definition, would not be a femme.

It isn't up to me or anyone to say where you and your partner *fit in*, because the beauty is, NO ONE has to *fit in*. :) We all just get to *be*.

As for the *fag*, I didn't call refer to that as butch on butch, the OP did. :) I have many friends that ID as Genderqueer, who feel as if they are neither female, nor male, and none I know have butch on butch relationships, so I think, once again, it is up to the person to ID as they see they *fit*. :)

Edited to address what you said about your *manly* friend who ID's as femme. As I said above, it is how you FEEL about yourself. There is no FEMME look or femme actions or femme limitations. We all don't screech over bugs and some of us use power tools. It is a feeling about yourself. (y)

Well I screech over bugs but that is a whole other thread :|


CA~

[Sunhawke]

Thanks, Concrete Angel! "We all just get to *be*." I like that! :)

[Concrete_Angel]

Thanks, Concrete Angel! "We all just get to *be*." I like that! :)

You're most welcome.. As it should be in all aspects of life :)

CA~

[Bo Dacious]

No worries, I can expand without arguing. :)

There is a LOT of duscussion in BF over roles and such and definitions of Butch, Femme, Stone or not. For me, a FEMME is a feminine woman who is exclusively attracted TO Butches or masculine energy, exclusively. There is no set *roles* for the butch or femme in my world, but a femme is typically DIFFERENT than a feminine woman in that way.. attraction to butches. Attraction doesn't determine gender. How you FEEL about your attraction and who you are, as a person, does. A FEMME feels that attraction. A butch who is attracted to other butches, by my definition, would not be a femme.

It isn't up to me or anyone to say where you and your partner *fit in*, because the beauty is, NO ONE has to *fit in*. :) We all just get to *be*.

As for the *fag*, I didn't call refer to that as butch on butch, the OP did. :) I have many friends that ID as Genderqueer, who feel as if they are neither female, nor male, and none I know have butch on butch relationships, so I think, once again, it is up to the person to ID as they see they *fit*. :)

Edited to address what you said about your *manly* friend who ID's as femme. As I said above, it is how you FEEL about yourself. There is no FEMME look or femme actions or femme limitations. We all don't screech over bugs and some of us use power tools. It is a feeling about yourself. (y)

Well I screech over bugs but that is a whole other thread :|


CA~



Quick-Krete spelled "discussion* wrong. :P

And SHE'S a school teacher. :o


I'm always willing to help like that. ;)



Bo <------- who loves "femmes"(y)

[KwanYin]

There are femmes who are attracted to and partner with other femmes. There are also feminine women who are attracted to other feminine women, who do not own the identity *femme*.

IMO femme is an identity, for some a gender, and does not determine one's object of attraction necessarily. Same thing for butch.

[Kyssme]

IMO femme is an identity, for some a gender, and does not determine one's object of attraction necessarily.

i agree with this statement. one of my best friends is very femme- as well as feminine ... and she's straight.

[KwanYin]

i agree with this statement. one of my best friends is very femme- as well as feminine ... and she's straight.

ok...well here I gotta disagree (no I'm not just trying to be difficult ;) )

I DO think of femme as a queer identity/gender. Same for butch. It's queer.

so straight girls = feminine, not femme.

but that's just my take on it. I understand others see it differently.

[SassyLeo]

yep! i agree with this too~

in my prior life, i was a feminine woman, read: i identified as a straight woman.
but clearly that wasn't working for me....well i just hadn't figured stuff out yet. ;)

i am not straight, yet do not identify with the word lesbian and actually don't resonate with "lipstick lesbian"

so i'm queer and feminine = femme...the -real- me


ok...well here I gotta disagree (no I'm not just trying to be difficult ;) )

I DO think of femme as a queer identity/gender. Same for butch. It's queer.

so straight girls = feminine, not femme.

but that's just my take on it. I understand others see it differently.

[Apocalipstic]

Well, and some people call Butches who are very metrosexual "fags".

And, I have dated some Femmes, that did not make me suddenly not Femme.

Really, it's all pretty fluid, we all have our own jargon...

I like what Sunhawke said about how we all just get to "be".

Clear as mud, right?

[Kyssme]

ok...well here I gotta disagree (no I'm not just trying to be difficult ;) )

I DO think of femme as a queer identity/gender. Same for butch. It's queer.

so straight girls = feminine, not femme.

but that's just my take on it. I understand others see it differently.

i ordinarily wouldn't say that a straight woman was femme- this one is. it is difficult to explain, and it's quite possible that one would have to know her as well as i do to see it. she *is* straight, but years ago she crossed the line and had a few butch lovers. she loves and understands transgendered people of all flavors and is *the one* person who understood my attraction to TG butches without any explaination at all.

p.s. i don't think you're difficult! :)

[JackSpade]

No worries, I can expand without arguing. :)

There is a LOT of duscussion in BF over roles and such and definitions of Butch, Femme, Stone or not. For me, a FEMME is a feminine woman who is exclusively attracted TO Butches or masculine energy, exclusively. There is no set *roles* for the butch or femme in my world, but a femme is typically DIFFERENT than a feminine woman in that way.. attraction to butches. Attraction doesn't determine gender. How you FEEL about your attraction and who you are, as a person, does. A FEMME feels that attraction. A butch who is attracted to other butches, by my definition, would not be a femme.

It isn't up to me or anyone to say where you and your partner *fit in*, because the beauty is, NO ONE has to *fit in*. :) We all just get to *be*.

As for the *fag*, I didn't call refer to that as butch on butch, the OP did. :) I have many friends that ID as Genderqueer, who feel as if they are neither female, nor male, and none I know have butch on butch relationships, so I think, once again, it is up to the person to ID as they see they *fit*. :)

Edited to address what you said about your *manly* friend who ID's as femme. As I said above, it is how you FEEL about yourself. There is no FEMME look or femme actions or femme limitations. We all don't screech over bugs and some of us use power tools. It is a feeling about yourself. (y)

Well I screech over bugs but that is a whole other thread :|


CA~

(y) Very well said I would hire you as my lawyer.

[Kyssme]

yep! i agree with this too~

in my prior life, i was a feminine woman, read: i identified as a straight woman.
but clearly that wasn't working for me....well i just hadn't figured stuff out yet. ;)

and now queer femme...the -real- me

i look back and see that i was always femme ... it just took me several years to realize that i was queer.

[KwanYin]

i ordinarily wouldn't say that a straight woman was femme- this one is. it is difficult to explain, and it's quite possible that one would have to know her as well as i do to see it. she *is* straight, but years ago she crossed the line and had a few butch lovers. she loves and understands transgendered people of all flavors and is *the one* person who understood my attraction to TG butches without any explaination at all.

p.s. i don't think you're difficult! :)

she sounds kinda *queer* to me :)
I get what you are saying, there are always exceptions. I know some straight folks who read kind of queerish to me......

oh, you just gotta trust me on the difficult part :)

[Kyssme]

she sounds kinda *queer* to me :)
I get what you are saying, there are always exceptions. I know some straight folks who read kind of queerish to me......

oh, you just gotta trust me on the difficult part :)

you're innocent til proven guilty. ;)

[Heart]

There are butches who are way into femmes but also resonate with the "fag" id. There are butch/butch couples who do not. A lipstick lesbian is a feminine looking lesbian -- who may be into other feminine looking lesbians or may be into sporty lesbians. I don't think our self-identities necessarily define (nor are they defined by) who we partner with or who we fuck.

I see femme as a queer stand-alone identity. Some femmes are into other femmes, some are into butches, some into TG/FtM, some are bi, some have been into it all.

So, what is FEMME? For many and varied conversations and explorations on the topic, come to the Femme 2006 Conference in SF in August!!

www.femme2006.com

[Concrete_Angel]

Quick-Krete spelled "discussion* wrong. :P

And SHE'S a school teacher. :o


I'm always willing to help like that. ;)



Bo <------- who loves "femmes"(y)

Hey.. I gotta typo once in a while.. just so you won't think I am perfect ;)

(6)

:P

CA~ <~~~ Queer Femme

[Concrete_Angel]

(y) Very well said I would hire you as my lawyer.

Okay.. that will be $500.00 please :)

;)

CA~

[Apocalipstic]

Hey.. I gotta typo once in a while.. just so you won't think I am perfect ;)

(6)

:P

CA~ <~~~ Queer Femme

It was a test! right? :)

[Concrete_Angel]

It was a test! right? :)


EGGGGxactly rite :P


CA~

[femmegirrl]

I dont know the correct term truthfully, but I always like reading the debates on femme and feminine...its happened before in many threads, always gives me things to think about in how I precieve myself and am percieved by others...