View Full Version : Ponderings of a Non-Sexual Bottom
09-22-2005, 11:40 PM
Let's see if I can manuver the broken ramblings inside my head into some semblence of rationality.
Some insight into me ;)
I am in a 6 year relationship. 5 of these years I have been collared. Our sex life and our play time are completely seperate. I do not at this time have the ability to make a sexual connection.
I crave to be beat. I have a need to be punished so to say. I do not cry or become overly angry in general daily life. I am repressed in that manner and part of our play consists of getting me to express these emotions. I consider crying a "weakness" and being overly angry is to loose "control". These are my concepts and I certainly am not putting judgement on others who express themselves this way. This is how I view myself.
I do not have memories of my childhood and the ones I do possess are vague. I have been told that I suffered severe physical abuse at the hands of my parents. It was mainly my father that confided and apologized to me for these things. I do not remember any sexual abuse but one instance and I am very disconnected from it. I understand what I remember but do not have any emotions to tie to it.
There has to be some because of the violent responses I have had to varying sexual stimuli during our play. One involved the bending, almost in half, a closet rod that was used in my restraint. (We now have a pipe.........LOL) Followed by my flying into an uncontrollable rage. ( I stayed restrained for awhile.........LOL) All I can recall is white and wanting to hurt something or someone.
I don't want to get off into rambling but obviously there are things present subconsciously I am not aware of.
What got me to thinking on the subject of non-sexual bottoms was a comment made in casual conversation. The comment was made by a friend that she was a non-sexual bottom and I asked her to explain. When she did I also made the connection and said I was also of that same vein. Her response is what prompted me to seek out others thoughts and opinions on the matter. She said, "Aren't you with Woods?" I replied "Yes, I am." She then looked at me like I had 3 heads and I changed the subject.
I was wondering about similar experiences or thoughts on the subject.
Are there others who have similar makeups? I know I cannot be the only girl in a relationship that is this way................LOL or perhaps I am unique...........LMAO
Do you think that it is possible to "bridge" the gap, so to speak and make a connection that would lead to sexual stimulation within play? I am envious of those that can "cum on command" in play or that can achieve orgasm simply from being flogged.
09-23-2005, 03:01 PM
Wow. You present a lot of info in your post. I hope that you will consider therapy to help you work through some of your issues -- assuming that a sensitive, competent, and affordable therapist is available in your area.
I'm not exactly clear on the question, I don't think. But I did have one thing to say. You ask about the linking of play and sex, but the examples you give are people who can cum on demand or cum during a flogging. I too envy those folks; that could never be me. But I do link sex and play b/c play is always followed by sex. What we do arouses me, although I only sometimes get any direct sexual stimulation during play, and then it is usually anal.
Why couldn't you make a link b/w sexual stimulation and play? Have you not wanted to? Does Woods not want you to? What do you mean you don't at this time have the ability to make a sexual connection? Are you saying you are shut down sexually? Maybe you could just say a little more.
09-23-2005, 03:12 PM
Railroad, I completely understand about not being a sexual bottom when it comes to play. When I play it is not a sexual experience for me. It's an emotional release. I enjoy the endorphins that are released and the feel of the flogger but it does not provoke a sexual response from me.
I know people that get sexually excited by the feel of the flogger or the anticipation of play. That's not me. Sexual excitement for me comes from intimacy but not from the beatings.
09-23-2005, 03:55 PM
Let me see if I can answer some of your questions.
Why couldn't you make a link b/w sexual stimulation and play? I don't think it's a matter of couldn't, more of a block, perhaps an emotional one.
Have you not wanted to? Does Woods not want you to? Oh I very much want to and Woods will take me wherever my heart desires but it has been a slow frustrating process on my part. We have made slow progress, now when she touches me very softly, I get goose bumps and my breathing quickens.
What do you mean you don't at this time have the ability to make a sexual connection? Are you saying you are shut down sexually? Yes, right on the money, you could say. I do not become wet or aroused during play and when sexual stimuli has been introduced, the results have been less than favorable. I become combative, irrational, or enraged.
The other statement about therapy, that has been well explored. I have worked through alot of my anger issues involving my parent but I just don't remember alot of the abuse that has been told to me. If there were any further sexual abuse, I certainly don't have any recollections. They tried to hypnotize me but I wouldn't or couldn't tell about any abuse of any kind. There is another part of me that really doesn't want to know. I hope you understand what I am saying. I don't know if I want to recall the horrors of my young life. I guess it seems like it was someone else they are talking about and not me. We tried for years to come to some sort of conclusion but to no avail. This was not the only reason I sought out therapy but it evolved into discussing my childhood.
I suppose when it comes right down to it, I am wanting to know that I am not an odd ball.
We do not have sex after play. I am not sexually aroused, it's like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders. I feel a sense of relief. I suppose we could try but usually I am so exhausted, sex is the last thing on my mind. This from a person who always has it on the brain. This is one area where the two do not mesh. During sex if she spanks my ass or twists my nipples, my body reacts favorably but I am reduced to tears. I feel like child who has been bad or displeased her in some way.
I am a very strong willed individual. I don't take much flak in the outside world. Perhaps the examples I gave were abit of a stretch, as from my experience they are few and far between.
What is it that causes you to become excited by the pain you recieve? I love the pain, I never want her to stop. Is it possible to explain? Does it help if I tell you I need to be hooded when we play? Would it help to know that my safeword is "Mama"?
09-23-2005, 04:29 PM
Interesting questions you posed Rail.
As to Non-sexual bottoming/non-sexual submissiveness, well for me...
I tend to keep my intimacies and my play rather seperate. I used to co-mingle the two but found that for me, things grew rather complicated rather easily.
My Domme/Mistress found it harder and harder to push my boundaries, and I found that issues of personal intimacy would interfere with a scene or any play that might take place.
Not that I am not sexual with the "right" Domme (have yet to find her) but I still keep my realtionship seperate from my play.
Jus my $0.03 worth
09-24-2005, 08:31 AM
I am sure that you are not the only one. Even if no one on this site has the same experiences, I am sure there are many others out there.
I don't know why I get turned on physically from pain. And I think it is physiological to some extent. I ordered some clover clips in the mail and I was by myself when I tried them on. The pain was excruciating but I got wet instantly. Weird.
But most of the time, my play is focused on paddling, which is a main feature in my fantasy life, so the psychological and physical are intertwined.
Whatever you are doing that you like is OK. If you don't want to link sex and pain, that's fine. But if you want to, which you say you do, I would suggest that you just keep slowly introducing sexual elements into your play. Slowly, over time, you should get more comfortable with it.
I used to separate play from sex, when I played in public. I think I used to get higher then and enjoyed being zoned out afterwards. Now we have sex after and I think it takes the edge off my high a bit. So maybe there is a down side. Has anyone had that experience of sex maybe detracting from play?
10-04-2005, 08:47 AM
PLease allow me to start by saying WOW, it took so much to really open up as you have done so in here!! BRAVO to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have kept an eye on this thread, and not replied because, well to be honest, perhaps a bit of fear. Fear of really allowing myself to be this vulnerable to the general public.
When i first read your post, i sat here infront of my computer lost in thought, past thoughts..things that came back to me that i had thought i had overcome. Obviously not.
I too, like you had an issue as a child that my father brought on. However, as i was growing up, this was not something we talked about in our family and so therefore i supressed them. When i was in my early 30's i had suspressed them so much that i started to doubt that they ever happened. I went to a hypno-regressionist to only find out what i had known all those years, really did actually happen to me. ( i know this is not the main topic of the thread, but it is what is leading up to my experiences).
So after i had found this out, i decided to be the xena of the family who never would even allow conversation that we have blackfoot indian in us, i came out and told my Grandfather about this. Good Lord i startyed WWlll in my family. No One believed me, i was now looked at as a trouble maker and i was basically black-balled from my fathers side for awhile. Gawd what a horrific expereince it was.
Well all that left me in a very awful place, sexually emotionally, you name it. I was introduced by curiousity to the life of BDSM and my self exploring lead me to various places. I watched people get excited when they were being beat, and or tortured. I watched people have orgasms while in the middle of pain. I never could relate to that(even to this day).
I found myself thinking that i must have some serious issues if i cannot do what they are doing..lol (the self analysis thing) I found myself thinking i was less than who they were. I became sor tof envious to be honest. I could take pain like no ones business, i could withstand some torture that i never thought i could. But in all that, it never became sexually amusing for me.
When Syr and i play, I have several stages i go through, one of them being very much like an animal. Prior to that they are light stages, more like laughter relase, or those.. damn that stings and go further. The one stage i find the most interesting is the anger stage. I get so mad when i start to think any of this has to do with sex or remotely close to it. Perhaps it's uilt up anger that is alloted a place to be released (heck who knows)...
I have used my sexuality more like a game of sorts in my life.. never being serious about it..i could care less one way or another really. But in those times that i have found a place what sex meant something to me, it was full of tears, and emotions. I will weep until i almost make myself sick. It's not a weep of (omg i just had sex) they are tears of omg there really is purpose and meaning to this and i just shared it with love. It actually surprises me when it happens.
There have been a couple of times that i can remember Syr trying to make touching gestures on my body while we were scening and all i could do was want to toss Hym right the hell off of me (it was not about Hym of course), it was where my (place, my mind was).
I think after long thoughts of this that perhaps it has to do something with being vulnerable, rail.. as a child you have no choice but to PUT up with it, as you are not in size strong enough to fight it off on your own, also you are not mentally prepared for such things and the outcomes of them. So in our adult states perhaps when we are tied up ( in my case i have to be chained, roped, and toss away the key sort of thing) lol .. we perhaps find ourselves back in that same space as we were when we were children. It;s a very vulnerable place, yet we have matured and know that we have the RIGHT to stop anything we want to now. But there we are, tied up, bound, can't do a damn thing about it, so it has a way of bringing back those (bound up emotions as a child going through abuse back forward) There is no way in hell that i could possibly become sexually stimulated with all that going on in my subconscious mind.
There have been a couple of times that Syr and i had sex right after a scene, and then i fund that i was trying to seek pain, from within.. i wanted to develope pain so that i could say STOP!! It was not Hym, it was me.. i actually allowed myself to develop pain to have that moment come to a hault. That was only one occasion..that was not for all sexual encounters that we have experienced after a scene.
I felt that i related to you in so many ways in this thread..almost like mirroring what i have gone through. I stil have a hard time to this very day understanding how people get sexual enjoyment while in scene. Perhaps one day i will reach that goal, but for today, there is no sex while we are in scene. I get much to angry and will fight Hym off tooth and toenail, not to mention if Hy were to ever let me go from those binds, i would rip the skin off from Hym. (not realizing it was Hym that i was doing this to) it's just whre i would happen to be.
In scene, Syr becomes my mental pray, I become the hunter and looking for a way to eat Hym up alive. (now typically this would sound like a hot scene) and the reactions perhaps are.. but internally, i am fighting with everything that i am and i am not. I know those rages and anger you go through, i know them well. Syr and i have mentioned on other threads a few times this very stage i go through. To Hym, it excites Hym, it empowers Hys sadistic side (which is very cool) to me, i am looking for this release and yet i am not really releasing, i am working myself into this animal or beast if you will who will distroy you if you come close enough for me to grab ahold of you.LOL
Somewhere in all that, i guess there is a release. I always feel very drained afterwards and i am like totally worn out!! I am still not sure if my eyes don't change from round to slanted when this happens..LOLOL
All this i have shared with you, was for you.. to let you know, that you are SO NOT alone!! I felt that you were strong enough to openly come in here and lay this out on the table, that the only thing i could do was to offer you my story and that it mirrors yours very much so.
I am not sure if it will help any at all, but in a small little way, i feel good to have allowed myself to let go of some of these things and put them out here. (on the otherhand it scares the crap out of me). We never want people to use our personal emotions and hurts against us..they puts us in very vulnerable places. I would only hope that others use this particular thread for themselves and not to twist it nor abuse it in any way or fashion.
Thanks rail for bringing this up and allowing me a place to finally let some of this out. ( i might regret it, but then i might not) *smiles*
Yours in Leather (f)
10-04-2005, 03:02 PM
Thanks for sharing that with us sunny. I learn so much from your posts and appreciate the gift.
10-04-2005, 03:29 PM
You are definitely not the only one. I know many, many nonsexual bottoms. I always find it interesting when people think bdsm has to *always* be about sex and sexuality (or having a fetish, or what have you). When really, it can be just as much about sensation as it can be about getting all hot and bothered. Some people just enjoy hurting people/being hurt, or dominating people/ being dominated. There can definitely be a divide between your sexlife and your s/m life. It looks like you have that going on, and it's totally okay. I do wish you luck in dealing with all the stuff in your past that you have going on, though, and hope for the best for you and yours. (l)
10-04-2005, 06:51 PM
Wow sunny! Wow!
I actually cried while reading your post. I was able to put myself in your shoes and see my own reflection. I also was afraid because there is an amount of vulnerablility that you subject yourself to when opening up the things that have caused us pain.
I didn't want this to be a thread about my abuse. I wanted to ask an honest question about something that caused me to think.
The sufferings of my childhood take part but I have worked very hard on "me" to make sure that they do not overly influence my daily adult dealings. I hope that I am making sense. LOL
I understand that the types of play in scenes vary as much as there are people that walk and breathe. I know one thing for someone else may not be the "thing" for me.
I know that BDSM is not all about sex, if that were the case, I would have split long ago..............LOL I am truely facinated by someone that can make that connection. I am a very sexual person. I love sex and the intimacy involved when Ma'am and I make love. I am hoping one day to include that in our play. My "fantasy" is to have both the "pain and pleasure", but I also know that what is real and what is fantasy can and are alot of the time, two different entities all together. (But a grrl can dream.........LOL)
Ma'am and I have discussed the reasons behind my need to be hooded during play. She likened it to being a child in which you play that old game of "if I can't see you, you can't see me and hurt me". Boy, did that hit home! It's also like my security blanket of sorts. I am also locked when we play, so that I don't get loose.......LOL Ma'am says she does not have a death wish and does not want to have one anytime soon. After we play, I feel relief. Ma'am says that I have a different, calmer outlook on life for awhile after. It's almost as if I can see clearer. My safeword is attributed to my mother. She was the authoritatorian that I clearly remember dealing out the abuse. I only know what my father has recanted to me.
I feel lots better knowing that there are correlations of others that I can relate too. I thank everyone for sharing apart of themselves with me and hope that the discussion will continue to blossom.
Your sister in leather,
Micki aka Rail
10-05-2005, 12:23 PM
For me, I can bottom to both sexual and completely non-sexual scenes, but they involve very different mindsets. If it's erotic, then I can get that switched connection thing going, where pain actually contributes to arousal, and I can orgasm from pain itself. I get turned on by being helpless and subject to another person's control. This is where I like to be bound, and where I like to say "no" with no consequence (if I say "Andrea Dworkin", though, the scene is over).
But in a non-sexual scene, I go to a very different place, and it's like I've been put to the task of swallowing up another person's anger and rage, and more I endure, the better I've served. This isn't a non-consent scene-- I don't want to be bound, and no means no. This is a place where I can play with someone of any gender, because it's not a sexual situation. Ths is also place where I like to play very very heavy-- I need to get hurt, and there's nothing sexual about it.
It's entirely possible for these spaces to intersect, but they're usually kept separate.
10-08-2005, 01:35 PM
Hi Micki *S* (f)
Sorry i was not able to get back here for a few days, but i am back now *S*
Thank yuo Micki for your reponse back to my post. Your right, it was not easy to let all that out.. it still hurts i guess. The good side to all of this.. i am on a contuneing srtive forward *S* As it seems you are also!
I do relate to you in so many ways.. it's almost scary huh? lol
This has been a very good thread for me and again, very scary. but ya know.. when i saw you put yourself out here, i said to myself.. i totally respect that and maybe this would be good for me to just release it in here with you.. ok so i did shake for awhile afterwards, but still it was cool :)
Val.. MUAHHHHH to you and yours.. miss you two bunches!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you again Micki for allowing me to share with you and feel that you have made a nice safe place to really get to the brass tactics with ourselves *S* You Rock, my compliments to your Ma'am!!!!!!!
Yours in Leather
11-03-2005, 04:45 PM
I donít believe that there is any one recipe for BDSMÖ to me itís like a big pot of soup and everyone has their own ingredients, so to speakÖ You add a little of this, some of that to suit your needs and taste. Some are made to heal and replenish while others choose to indulge in decadence.
Some people use BDSM as an escape while other find release and comfort from the here and now or some place even deeper. Regardless you have to search within to see if the process is constructive or destructive. If the latter then perhaps other healing is more conducive. Iíve often wonder in some cases if itís not allowing the pain to live keeping someone trapped in pain and misery. Iím not really sure.
BUT there is a song that reminds me of all this.. this thread..
I'll kill you little girl...
Once upon a time there was a girl
In her early years she had to learn
How to grow up living in a war that she called home
Never noticed where to turn for shelter from the storm
Hurt me to see the pain across my mother's face
Everytime my father's fist would put her in her place
Hearing all the yelling, I would cry up in my room
Hoping it would be over soon
Bruises fade father, but the pain remains the same
I still remember how you kept me so afraid
The strength is my mother, for all the love she gave
Every morning that I wake, I look back at yesterday
And I'm Ok
I often wonder why I've carried all this guilt
When it's you that helped me put up all these walls I've built
Shadows stir at night through a crack in the door
The echoes of a broken child screaming please no more
Daddy don't you understand the damage you have done?
To you it's just a memory but for me it still lives on
Bruises fade father, but the pain remains the same
And I still remember how you kept me so, so afraid
The strength is my mother, for all the love she gave
Every morning that I wake, I look back at yesterday
It's not so easy to forget
All the marks you left along her neck
When I was thrown against cold stairs
And everyday afraid to come home in fear of what i might
Bruises fade father but the pain remains the same
And I still remember how you kept me so afraid
The strength is my mother for all the love you gave
Every morning that I wake, I look back at yesterday
And I'm ok