Are we considered too much/ too ugly in the straight world?

[Trannieboy]

Dolly Parton is the ultimate femme icon but says she shares her bed with women but she is not a lesbian?
What about Samantha Fox?
I am still upset about KD Lang saying she does not identify as butch...

[MustangButch]

Why would you be upset that KD Lang doesn't id as Butch?

[dirtywhiteboi]

kd lang isnt butch.

dirt


Dolly Parton is the ultimate femme icon but says she shares her bed with women but she is not a lesbian?
What about Samantha Fox?
I am still upset about KD Lang saying she does not identify as butch...

[AmazonBitch]

I don't care how she identifies, KD lang is sexxxy LOL (k) (h)

[femmegirrl]

hell yeah..kd lang is sexy as hell...

[AmazonBitch]

Drools with femmegirrl ;)

[femmegirrl]

*hugs AmazonBitch*
lets go KD hunting!

[BCtboi]

people are who they are. if kd lang doesn't ID as butch, that's her perogitive and she's entitled to it.

i personally give her kudos for thinking outside of the box.

[AmazonBitch]

femmegrrl-

Girrl, she gives me that swoony,heaving bosom feeling LOL
*bites her lip* mmmm

*has a moment of silence to appreciate the beauty of the b-f dynamic, and truly hotttt it makes one feel**

[femmegirrl]

*biting my own lip and enjoying the silence..purrr*

[AmazonBitch]

femme-

Damn girl, we are some ripe fruit LMAO

[AmazonBitch]

femme - I just put up a thread all our own, just for our lasciviousness!

"The aroused femmes thread"

[femmegirrl]

woohoo! *goes running to lookee...*

[femmegirrl]

femme-

Damn girl, we are some ripe fruit LMAO


like sweet little berries, waiting to be plucked? ;)

[new_improved_boi]

Well, a self-ID is a self-ID. And hell, Dolly Parton may just like sleepovers, you know? ;) I know you want community, but if somebody isn't, they just aren't.

-NIB

[TheFrozenNorth]

people are who they are. if kd lang doesn't ID as butch, that's her perogitive and she's entitled to it.

i personally give her kudos for thinking outside of the box.


I second that BC, who are we to say anyone is wrong for identifying as who they choose to, we ourselves hate it when people label us, so why should we be allowed to do so. Right on with the thinking bro.

[luvin61]

ok Dolly Parton lives with Judy,,she has always lived with Judy,,they live in los angeles,,Dolly does not live inn Tennessee altho her token husband Carl does,,when Dolly is in hawaii she goes to gay bars,,Dollywood now has gay Days and Dolly was there without wig and makeup,,,,
I worked the Dolly show when she had that going on,,and believe me,,Judy was like a bulldog is any female even came near Dolly that even looked none femme,,she was very protective,,gay,,lesbian,,yea,,we all think so,everyone at abc thought so,they said she had an affair with her manager and wardrobe men,,they were both gay men,,lesbian we think so,just hiding in the closet,, or so she thinks,,

[Trannieboy]

Well of course people should ID as whatever they feel like, that wasnt my point. My point is, are there any butch/femme celebrities out there, in the maintsteam world, someone we can identify with as young baby butches/femmes? Pop stars, movie stars... oh I am just like ........ and it´s seems ok to be, because she is?
KD Lang change my life, for the first time i bought an album because of how the artist looked. I saw her on the cover of Vanity Fair, but since she didnt ID as butch, I got mixed messages, telling me this wasnt really ok because there wasnt a word for what it was about, but at least I was no longer alone in the world. Baby steps towards existance...

[aprettydress]

luke is gaming, but i thought i'd quote him, 'jesus christ, who gives a fuck.' in addition, he admitted to me just now that he always thought that Dolly was married to kenny rogers.

either way, i don't think that dolly's the ultimate femme icon...i mean, according to the galleries there's still a Jolie contingency out there--and how 1999, anyways...so, this may be kind of random, but, these are my thoughts and if i get to have an icon i'd really like her to at least be working on her thesis and queer, queer...QUEER.

for 5 minutes i've been singing 'islands in the stream...that is what we are...' to the man, and i think he's over it.

ha. gamers.

dress

[MustangButch]

Well of course people should ID as whatever they feel like, that wasnt my point. My point is, are there any butch/femme celebrities out there, in the maintsteam world, someone we can identify with as young baby butches/femmes? Pop stars, movie stars... oh I am just like ........ and it´s seems ok to be, because she is?
KD Lang change my life, for the first time i bought an album because of how the artist looked. I saw her on the cover of Vanity Fair, but since she didnt ID as butch, I got mixed messages, telling me this wasnt really ok because there wasnt a word for what it was about, but at least I was no longer alone in the world. Baby steps towards existance...
I think looking at celebrities as role models should always be taken with a grain of salt. They are a product of money.

That doesn't mean we can't admire some of them for who they are, or respect tem for the things they have been through or adversity they have had to overcome, it just means that, IMHO, we shouldn't just use them as *role models* because they are there.

I admire AJ because of the things she has gone through in her life, and moved beyond, because of her desire to raise Maddox, because she is an extremely talented actress, etc.

I hate Rosie O'Donnell... I think she is a pig and a horrible person to represent *lesbians* but that is, again, my own personal feelings about the woman.

I think if you ask people who they admire most in life, you will find that the majority of their answers will NOT be lesbians or celebrities.. they will be people like their mother, father, brother, grandmother, friend, etc.

It is understandable to look to famous people in the past and present who *represent* us, but whether we are okay with our own sexuality, shouldn't depend on them and how *out* they might be, or how alike to us they might be.

And just because a *celebrity* doesn't self id as butch doesn't mean that there isn't some part of them that is.

If you put famous lesbians into two columns.. one femme and one butch.. and based how they look and how they act as the deciding factor about which column to put them in, you might be surprised to see who falls on each side.

It doesn't necessarily mean they *are* butch or that they should *ID* as butch, but even though they dont, there are still characteristics you can find within them that are similar to those of us who *do* id as butch.

[PussycatGrrl]

Dolly Parton is the ultimate femme icon but says she shares her bed with women but she is not a lesbian?
What about Samantha Fox?
I am still upset about KD Lang saying she does not identify as butch...


Sam Fox is a strange one. She says she likes women and is seeing a woman but isnt a lesbian.....hmmmmmm confusing

[luvin61]

If you look back at the old time actresses,,they didnt talk about it but it was a known fact around the studios,,Barbara Stanwick for instance,,always strong characters,,known at the studios as a lesbian,,back then it wasnt ok to be out,,I think if it was modern day she would definatly be a butch or dom :)
there are alot of closeted people out there in the entertainment industry,,it can make or ruin your career depending on the industy,,there are a few in country music that are known to keep the company of dykes on a frequent basis on personal time,,they try to keep that hush hush but it gets out in the community,,we know ;)

[MsAkasha]

I assume KD Lang doesn't ID as butch because she isn't into the b/f lifestyle. She does ID as a lesbian. Just my .02.
Ms. A.

[sensualwillow]

I don't care how she identifies, KD lang is sexxxy LOL (k) (h)

im also sexy :):):D and available :$

willow

[SpinxxieFairy]

role models schmodels celebrity wise.. does it matter? grins.. we all have something good to offer... just my two cents..

[Tatt2dTop]

Someone thought KD was butch? LOL.

Nevermind KD... Dolly's hot. ;)

- Ryan

[AmazonBitch]

im also sexy and available willow

Hey Girl,

Then we have something in common LOL

[sensualwillow]

Hey Girl,

Then we have something in common LOL

so lets go to tango's dtown toronto :) your not that far away :)
we will find us some butch :)

willow

[femmegirrl]

Hey Girl,

Then we have something in common LOL


I wanna go cruisin with you and willow! :o

[sensualwillow]

I wanna go cruisin with you and willow! :o

you'd have to come to snowy canada for that ;)

willow

[femmegirrl]

hmm..that would be fun...

[Annie]

There are LOTS of femmes who do not ID as lesbian.

[mameha]

hmmm. Dolly Parton as the ultimate femme? C'mon now...She is just tacky looking (tacky hair, tacky country singer clothes, tacky makeup...wears nylons w/ opentoe sandals...need i say more?)

The question of the thread reminded me ...on my b-day, my partner took me out to dinner at one of the best (if not the best) restaurants in our city. She is the most handsome butch i have seen in my life (makes femmes/butches drool...likely some lesbian-wannabes, as well). This being my b-day, i also made sure to dress up in some traffic stopping dress. Well...even though we weren't sitting in the middle of the restaurant we had tables fixated to observe us (and we were behaving...at most, she kissed my hand couple times, and we fed each other food). I recall the waiter also saying something about wanting to watch us in a scene. ...Sure didn't sound like we were too much/too ugly for anything (i'd say just the contrary)

[Daddy J]

OK Ladies I don't get the whole KD craze...... Yeah she can sing and damn good at that. But she is about as butch as my mother....She runs male energy thats for sure but when I saw here in concert I wanted to scream
"Let your inner butch out brutha"
She's a butch trying to make it in a straight world I get that but damn why she gotta be so hung up on PASSING? We all know the girls packin LOL
there ladies drool over that thought ;-))

[Ravenouss]

Dolly Parton does the deal?

And I thought I had never met a trashy tart I didn't like... just goes to show there is a first time for everything!

[femmegirrl]

KD and packin..yeah, thats something to make a girl drool...*winks*

[TaintedLove25]

So how do we know KD doesn't pack? someone oughtta ask her that sometime ;)

[Ravenouss]

So how do we know KD doesn't pack? someone oughtta ask her that sometime ;)

Wasn't she packing on the cover of that magazine w/ that skinny model shaving her? Forgot the name of the model or the magazine... But KD had on a very yummy suit then. And I mean yummy suit, not yummy KD!

[Daddy J]

it was Cindy Crawford and Vanity Fair was the mag. AND CINDY WAS HOT

[FR]

dolly gay--thats old news-like 20 years old --rumor has it she slept with lilly tomlin back in the day. As for KD--last concert i saw her she wore skirts. you know all the andros i know wear pants and dont pack. but then again in the long run just being out is a step. and then again im not sure why i care.

[AmazonBitch]

OK Ladies I don't get the whole KD craze...... Yeah she can sing and damn good at that. But she is about as butch as my mother....She runs male energy thats for sure but when I saw here in concert I wanted to scream
"Let your inner butch out brutha"
She's a butch trying to make it in a straight world I get that but damn why she gotta be so hung up on PASSING? We all know the girls packin LOL
there ladies drool over that thought ;-))


If KD herself doesn't ID as butch, then she isn't, because it is about self-definition. BUT, no one has any right to make a judgement call on whether or not someone is "butch enough." Male-identified-packing etc butches are not the definition of butch. Butch energy comes in many different forms, and doesn't have to present itself in the same way. A butch who id's as a dyke or a woman, is not somehow less 'butch' than one who id's as male or TG.

[Berg]

hmmm. Dolly Parton as the ultimate femme? C'mon now...She is just tacky looking (tacky hair, tacky country singer clothes, tacky makeup...wears nylons w/ opentoe sandals...need i say more?)

I don't really give a shit about whether Dolly Parton is a lesbian or not (I don't believe it, myself). I think she's an incredible talent, to say nothing of a lovely person, and don't doubt she's far above making bitchy, tasteless remarks of the sort quoted above.

[Daddy Rhon]

Heya, let's refrain from digs and allow people to express their opinions, good people.

Here's mine... at 60, Dolly is still a doll! A true rags to riches gal, and a great business woman. Though some of her songs are a little corny, she has a sweet, sad voice like no other. I don't know if Dolly is a dyke or not -- to claim her is prolly just wishful thinking.

[BabyfaceButchBoi]

Oh lawd ok where are the role models who are truly butch and femme, Lily Tomlin is a lesbian big deal I knew it all along, so whether a person Ids as lesbian, butch,femme whatever, if they are we need to embrace them whether we like what they do in their real life, because when it comes to it, homosexuals are the minority.

FYI post is not intended to spark debates are race cuz I used the word minority, so please take my post as you see it

BFBB

[Rainbow Skittles]

Butchie thinks she's gay - but I REALLY think that is wishful thinking on hys part. He's still in love with her boobs. :o

[Butchie]

Butchie thinks she's gay - but I REALLY think that is wishful thinking on hys part. He's still in love with her boobs. :o


It's not just the boobs (though, I admit, I would yodel down her canyons and nestle in her holler if she gave me a glance) it's not just her incredible talent - Dolly reminds me of the women I grew up lusting after. That slow soft southern drawl, the make up and big bar hair, her great sense of humor that only southern women can have and her total femme attitude are what have kept me a Dolly fan since she sang with Porter Wagner.

Jolene can bring me to climax and Coat of Many Colors moves me to tears.

Please, don't dis Dolly. If the world were a theme park, I would use all my tickets on her ride.

Butchie

[Berg]

Jolene can bring me to climax and Coat of Many Colors moves me to tears.


I love those songs, too. Dolly's an amazing songwriter.

[Frost]

I come from the land of Dolly.. A place where a bra is the state flag..
Is she gay? I don't care what she is... I love her.. Few years ago.. When everyone was headed to Disneyland for "gay day" few thousand showed up at Dollywood.
In a panic of queers taking over .. Someone called Dolly.. Her reply.. My park is a family park.. I've never said what kind of family... Let them in..

But in her book.. She answers the age old question :| ... Has she slept with women?
and asked.... if it was true she jogged at night naked.. (S)
Now.. if you see me walking around that area at night (S) .. I'm not looking for Bigfoot !! ;)

and for the ones who don't like her... When you get to Dollywood.. the first ride on the right.. Ride it first.. (a)

one way or another No one walks away from Dolly without their pants being wet.. :|

[Joseph Sideburn]

he admitted to me just now that he always thought that Dolly was married to kenny rogers.
omg.

I'm crying over here.

[Ravenouss]

Jolene can bring me to climax and Coat of Many Colors moves me to tears.
I love those songs, too. Dolly's an amazing songwriter.


Those who have a stone roof shouldn't throw a glass... or is it those who have a glass roof shouldn't throw a stone? I can't seem to learn these things in English.

The fact is, there are more Dollies among us than we care to admit. I've taken them out and find it kindda fun, actually -- when not terribly embarrassing. But, I am willing to concede, it's cultural, perhaps. I like girls who are into Laura Ashley rather than Dolly' style. And I didn't grow up in this country so I don't know Dolly the artist. I am pleasantly surprised to learn I may actually be missing something! I will look for those songs.

In the meantime, in the interest of advancing my education on Dollymatters, would you Frost please tell me what is Dollyland? Is it like Disneyland but instead of girl stuff they have grown up girly stuff? Either way I can't take rides!

And dress: who is Kenny Rogers?

Sorry for the ignorance! :$

[Dial]

I'm loving this thread. It's really cracking me up, or else making me think...and sometimes both.

What I am thinking/wondering:

About this whole "is KD a butch" thing? My first response is, "who cares?" By then I think about it a little more and I wonder: if someone gives off--and clearly owns--their male/guy/boi/boy/masculine energy? How much does it matter whether or not they actually use the term butch? I'm actually not thinking of KD here. I'm thinking about some of the folks I known over the years--old pals for the two rugby teams I was involved with--who were definitely my bois, who definitely liked the femmes, and who definitely owned and enjoyed their masculinity. We even went on "boys nights out" from time to time and generally caused (playful) havoc whenever we got together. But I don't recall ever hearing them use the term butch to describe themselves. Still and all they are my brothas, my buds, and my "partners in crime," fo' sho'.

So what's in a name? When I think of those guys, I'm not all that sure.

[Bonnie314]

Okay, I'm not dress but ~here~ (http://www.menwholooklikekennyrogers.com/) is Kenny Rogers.

Okay, I'm a liar but ~this time~ (http://www.kennyrogers.com/biography) I'm on the up and up.

According to my grandmother Kenny Rogers is the only man in the world who compares to my grandfather.
I've never questioned it.
There are some things left best unheard.

[mameha]

...Jolene can bring me to climax ...Please, don't dis Dolly. If the world were a theme park, I would use all my tickets on her ride.

Butchie
Do you mean this Jolene? (see lyrics below)

( i am using my tickets in Disneyland ;)
Jolene:

I'm begging of you please don't take my man
Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene
Please don't take him just because you can

Your beauty is beyond compare
With flaming locks of auburn hair
With ivory skin and eyes of emerald green
Your smile is like a breath of spring
Your voice is soft like summer rain
And I cannot compete with you, Jolene

He talks about you in his sleep
There's nothing I can do to keep
From crying when he calls your name, Jolene

And I can easily understand
How you could easily take my man
But you don't know what he means to me, Jolene

Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene
I'm begging of you please don't take my man
Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene
Please don't take him even though you can

You could have your choice of men
But I could never love again
He's the only one for me, Jolene

I had to have this talk with you
Because my happiness depends on you
And whatever you decide to do, Jolene

Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene
I'm begging of you please don't take my man
Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene
Please don't take him even though you can
~~~~~~~0~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[BCtboi]

There are LOTS of femmes who do not ID as lesbian.

yay annie! short and sweet. you rule!

[BCtboi]

really though, why should it matter what a celebrity IDs as? chances are, you'll never meet these people. if you do, they probably won't give you the time of day, as they're all a bunch of self-indulgent lazy bastards, with victim complexes.

"ohhhh look at me, i'm a pretty pretty pop star...but don't dare ask for an autograph while i'm eating dinner with my fake boyfriend, don't you know i'm a celebrity! i need privacy!"

personally, i'd be looking toward radclyffe hall or leslie feinberg if i wanted a role model.

but that's just me. ;)

[Berg]

The things that make that song great are Dolly's crystal-clear voice and smoking guitar licks.

Another fine example of her songwriting prowess:

Coat of Many Colors

Back through the years
I go wanderin’ once again
Back to the seasons of my youth
I recall a box of rags that someone gave us
And how my momma put the rags to use
There were rags of many colors
Every piece was small
And I didn’t have a coat
And it was way down in the fall
Momma sewed the rags together
Sewin’ every piece with love
She made my coat of many colors
That I was so proud of

As she sewed, she told a story
From the bible she had read
About a coat of many colors
Joseph wore and then she said
Perhaps this coat will bring you
Good luck and happiness
And I just couldn’t wait to wear it
And momma blessed it with a kiss

My coat of many colors
That my momma made for me
Made from only rags
But I wore it so proudly
Although we had no money
I was rich as I could be
In my coat of many colors
My momma made for me

So with patches on my britches
Holes in both my shoes
In my coat of many colors
I hurried off to school
Just to find the others laughing
And making fun of me
In my coat of many colors
My momma made for me

And oh I couldn’t understand it
For I felt I was rich
And I told them of the love
My momma sewed in every stitch
And I told ’em all the story
Momma told me while she sewed
And how my coat of many colors
Was worth more than all their clothes

But they didn’t understand it
And I tried to make them see
That one is only poor
Only if they choose to be
Now I know we had no money
But I was rich as I could be
In my coat of many colors
My momma made for me
Made just for me

She's not a legend in her own time for nothing.

[JstAButch]

that song is so cool and yeah it really makes you think about life in general........... Makes me realize how lucky I am to have what I have

And I don't care who's ID's as what as far as celebrities

[slickshoes]

And I am 100% femme and only attracted to butches! ;)

She is an amazing talent.

[Ravenouss]

Okay, I'm not dress but ~here~ (http://www.menwholooklikekennyrogers.com/) is Kenny Rogers.

Okay, I'm a liar but ~this time~ (http://www.kennyrogers.com/biography) I'm on the up and up.



ROFLMAO!!!

[chick92103]

how much do I love that this thread has turned into a Dolly tribute?

thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis much!

giant blonde wigs? rad!

ultra-low-cut spangly outfits that jinglejanglejingle when she walks? exquisite!

a pickuptruckload of garish makeup with enough gloss and sparkle to permanently damage your retinas, should you look directly at her? yes, please!

super-high-heeled-open-toed shoes with shiny nylons? delicious!!

oh, and when I was a kid, I fantasized that Kenny Rogers was my real dad. I was sure that man who was posing as such could not have spawned such an amazing child as myself, but Kenny sure could have!

JenChick, who ID's as tacky

[Berg]

HA!

I don't usually say "LOL," but this really did make me laugh. :D

[mameha]

*has a mental pic of Dolly in bed w/ Tammy Fay *

[oregon_femme]

*has a mental pic of Dolly in bed w/ Tammy Fay *


Dolly could stay, but Tammy Fay would get her little butt
booted out of my bed in a heartbeat!!

[Ravenouss]

ROFLMAO!!!


Come on... I must confess, there will be no Jolene (or three-some) induced climaxes for me!

[Butchie]

ROFLMAO!!!


Come on... I must confess, there will be no Jolene (or three-some) induced climaxes for me!

Ahhh, but, would you ride her log flume? - and if you did, would you want to be in front or back?

Butchie

[London_Calling]

July 1 , 2005: Daniela Sea has joined next season's (3rd) cast as a butch lesbian character.

After two seasons it would seem that now that think it is appropriate to bring in a butch character?? Is that because the show is successful? Now they think they have a strong fan base they dont have to worry if a butch character offends people? As much good as I think the show does, i also think it equally does bad & I cant say I'm a fan of it.


Here's a link anyway: http://www.afterellen.com/TV/thelword.html


By the by, I'm also loving Dolly, she rocks!

[msdemeanor]

Daniela Sea has joined next season's (3rd) cast as a butch lesbian character.
Okay, that's a small step. But who is she going to date? Are they adding femme characters? Feminine lesbians aren't generally attracted to butches, so she's not going to get anywhere with the existing cast. Maybe she'll be the token butch and fix things around the house.

[femmichelle]

Ok, so she might not appear stereotypically "butch" to the untrained eye, but I, for one, have always seen (and loved) the butch in her.

Well, now she's talking about her complex butch/boi/genderqueer identity, and her femme girlfriend. Her other first solo album (Stag) dealt alot with gender, but after this second solo,Prom (which came out this past spring) a lot of her interviews have been really straightforward and focused on her gender identity.

Here are two good ones, for those who are interested:

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianmusicians/a/AmyRay.htm

--highlight of article--
I would consider myself butch. But that is a word that is part of my gay generation.

I’ve found that I could speak about part of me being male. And feel comfortable with that. Rather than just say, I’m butch. I actually say, this part of me is masculine and this part of me is feminine, they come together and I am who I am. Which is slightly different than being butch.

I have such a strong male part of myself that I really feel it’s important to understand where that comes from and for me personally not get involved in misogyny. I understand the transgender quandary of being trapped in the wrong body. I understand it really directly. I always felt that way. It took me a long time to be comfortable with my body, the female part of me.

And I have. I feel good about that. Not everybody does and not everybody can. I think there are some people who are so overwhelmingly in the wrong body that you really do have to change. I believe that. But all of these things are things that I didn’t even think about when I was first gay. These are things that have been dialogued about more and more in the past few years. It’s part of my dialogue
--

http://www.baywindows.com/media/paper328/news/2005/04/14/Arts/Queer.Grrl-920010.shtml

--highlight of article--
"I got comfortable, in a very strong way, with just who I am. I'm a boi, I'm a girl, I'm very queer, I'm very much gonna be with women and it's gonna be a femme woman. It's like really discovering myself in that way, when I struggled for a long time over that. It's hard to accept about yourself, especially in my generation. A dyke is considered not necessarily a good thing, or a butch woman. Now butches have such a strong identity, and they're proud."
--

The Indigo Girls are playing Michigan this summer, which makes me gag, frankly. But, in order to deal with her conflicted feelings on being a part of that womyn's community, and also supporting trans rights, she interviewed a bunch of people associated with the controversy. They are interesting to read, if nothing else.

http://indigogirls.com/corresp/2005/2005-06-13-a.html

(k) Michelle

[HarryLoneWolf]

07-24-2005 11:20 AM
msdemeanor Quote:
Originally Posted by London_Calling
Daniela Sea has joined next season's (3rd) cast as a butch lesbian character.


Okay, that's a small step. But who is she going to date? Are they adding femme characters? Feminine lesbians aren't generally attracted to butches, so she's not going to get anywhere with the existing cast. Maybe she'll be the token butch and fix things around the house.

_________________________________________________________________

Excuse me? Is that your personal opinion or the opinion stated on the link you provide? Who says FEMININE LESBIANS AREN'T GENERALLY ATTRACTED TO BUTCHES??????????

Um, last time I checked, femmes are FEMININE presenting WOMEN and last time I checked this site was called BUTCH-FEMME.COM and is populated to overflowing with FEMININE women who love BUTCH women and vice versa.

And what do you mean TOKEN BUTCH FIXING THINGS AROUND THE HOUSE?????????????????????? OH. MY. GOD. Like butches can't be viable life partner material or sexual partners?????????????? This is blatant misogyny and internalized HOMOPHOBIA at it's WORST.

Bite me. And fix up shit in your own damned house.

Harry-the-BUTCH-partnered-with-FierceLeoFemme-the-FEMININE-woman

[msdemeanor]

Wow Harry, you didn't understand a single thing I said. Your "bite me" comment is completely uncalled for, too.

[HarryLoneWolf]

Msdeameanor, if I misunderstood you, I stand prepared to be re-directed....and if an apology is in order, then it will be forthcoming.

Harry

[msdemeanor]

I used the term "feminine lesbians" to refer to the type of lesbians portrayed on the show, those who are attracted to each other. I've heard horrible stories from my husband and other butches about how this group of women looked down on butches and would have nothing to do with them. I see them as completely different from Femmes, who, among other things, may or may not identify as lesbians.

My comment about the "token butch" refers to two things. First, I think that the show is adding this character to respond to complaints from the butch-femme community. A good correlation is the way, years ago, television programs would add a minority character to respond to criticisms from those communities. Hence the term "token". Second, this show has repeatedly reinforced stereotypes about our community. My hunch is that this character will be written to embrace many of the butch stereotypes, including the stereotype that all butches love tools and can fix anything. Overall, the "token butch" comment was sarcasm.

[HarryLoneWolf]

:$ Well then, I tip my hat and humbly apologize to msdeameanor.

Harry

[msdemeanor]

I accept your apology and appreciate your gracious manner. Thank you Harry.

[RopeBurner]

k.d. lang just hasn't met the right femme...


More femmes for me if she doesn't.

Rope--

[London_Calling]

Some strong feelings were certainly provoked off the back of that daniela sea post!


To answer the actual title of the thread: Are we too much for the straight world?

For the most part I think we are too much for the hetro world, but at the same time we are often too much for 'non butch/femme' lesbian world, go figure. On a more positive note I think peoples perception of us is changing for the better & that can only be a good thing.

[London_Calling]

in the UK theres this programme on CH4 tonight called 'Rhona Cameron's Lesbian Moments', i bet i wont see one fellow butch in the whole show, in fact i'll slap myself in the face with a wet kipper if i do!

*wet kipper in the face update once i've seen the show.

[London_Calling]

as i thought no wet kipper needed, quite a random programme really.

[DrBombay]

Eye Candy Alert:

Rachel Maddow, of Airamericaradio, is featured in current issue of Velvet Park--such a butch.

http://www.alixolson.com/articles/velvetpark/velvet_maddow.html